jetjockee

Is there any benefit to flying the 767 vs 744 to counter balance the 767 2nd and 3rd year pay scale?

JerrySpringer

Having a seniority number?

Not being furloughed?

Not being at the job you're trying to leave?

Would I down bid? Probably not.

jetjockee

Jerryspringer

Not being furloughed?

Not sure if I understand that one?

captainv

For now, you're going to the 767 if you get the call.

If you get hired soon, you would have the benefit of greater relative seniority than you would on the 747, but that depends on where the Classic pilots go. I assume they would all want to stay on the 747, but haven't seen any kind of bid award yet. A few might want to be top of the list as a 767 FO, despite the loss of pay, or maybe some will be forced onto the 767 instead of sitting at home for months waiting for an open class date. That's up to the company, I would guess.

How much of an advantage is it to be more senior? Hard to say since I haven't flown the line yet. Obviously good for days off/vacation. I don't know how often their schedules get changed, but the mantra here is if you're flexible, you're too rigid. 767 destinations will be more limited, but I think the international stuff will be a blast. You also have the option (or maybe you'll get stuck with it) of flying the 767 freighter for DHL. You won't go international, and i've heard (HEARD, being the operative word) it's a week on/week off type deal, so you may credit a bit less than a guy who's out 17 days, plus the whole gateway travel tax deal.

On the plus side, it's only a lower pay rate for two years, should you choose to bid 747 FO after the 3-year seat lock. A good chunk of pilots are to set to retire in 2013, and I believe half the pilot group retires by 2020.

DC8DRIVER

... hired into the 76 at Atlas versus being a furloughed pilot from another airline who is currently on the street...


My guess is that since there are currently only two (one more coming ... maybe?) 767-300's doing pax charter work - mostly for the military - those will be the only ones doing the overseas international flying. The 5 DHL (ex-ABX) 767-200's will probably be doing core product flights domestically (or at least North America i.e. Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, etc.) with nightly hub turns through CVG.

Other than Jerry and captainv's points, maybe the only other 767 advantages over the 747 would be avoiding 8 to 15 hour legs, avoiding 4 to 8 hour time zone changes, and avoiding places you might not want to go like the "Stans", Africa, etc.

Get on the property, cope with a couple of years on the "light twin" and then bid over if you want. Personally, I wouldn't think twice about which airplane I ended up on as long as I got on the seniority list.

8

744driver

Mostly true, DC8.

However, the 767 is already scheduled to go to a "Stan" country several times this month. And something you guys on the 744 don't do...a layover in a "Stan" country!!

The other item is stage length...there are flights scheduled from Europe to the Pacific Northwest, and the LAX area. We are also in the hunt for Pacific ETOPS approval, so those HNL, UAM, etc layovers are not just 744 territory!!

You are absolutely right about getting on the seniority list...get the number, put up with the 767 (!!) and bid out of it when you can. Don't get bogged down in airplane assignments if you really want the job, and the Atlas lifestyle (in the long term) is something you can live with. That is the more critical question to ask yourself...

DC8DRIVER

Cool. Well, cool depending on which "Stan" you're talking about ...

Wow! Our little light twin is all growed up I guess that -300 as longer legs than I thought!! Thank goodness for bunkrooms, eh?

jetjockee

A big thanks to all that have offered insight to Atlas, its a big help in making the decision.

Another View:
Its not necessarily the equipment candidates are trying to figure out, its the earning potential, could I possibly be stuck making 50 hour guarantee (no duty rig), hit with tax liabilities such as travel and hotel(ouch) or will I have options to make duty rig. I for one will be taking a fairly large pay hit today for a better future tomorrow (take two steps backwards to make one step forward)
Its a difficult decision when you are supporting a family, saving for college and retirement,
And your not a spring Chicken anymore?

captainv

Lots of guys in my class took that leap. More than a few were doing really, really well as RJ captains but made the switch. I was an RJ FO for almost a decade, so it'll likely be a raise for me.

Plan on $1600/mo for the first 4 months when you run the numbers. training is 2 months, 747 guys typically have a month off before OE, flight pay kicks in when you complete OE.

Somebody posted the daily rig a while back, but basically if you're out 17 days, you will far exceed guarantee. only way to reduce that is to be in training, on vacation or on home reserve. unless OE is backlogged like the 767 is currently, i don't think you'll see many 50-hour months after you get on line. as for base reserve, you'll get the daily rig but get the tax hit for the days in base. depends on your base and what the company paid for your ticket. Highest airfares in the nation? HSV and CVG. maybe one of the 747 guys can chime in on how often you get base reserve. the new guys I know on the 747 keep pretty busy.

Trying to figure out what you'll make on the 767 is difficult until we get going. No one really knows. But i suspect the 767 freighter would probably be the worst case - if the schedule is week on/week off you may not be away 17 days and you'd always be beginning/ending in CVG and get the tax hit. If you were JFK based on the -300ER, you may not see JFK very much as the airplane may never be there. if they buy you a ticket to anywhere besides your crew base - no tax hit.

Laxrox43

What is the projected hiring over the next year (plus)? Will Atlas be interviewing any time soon?