Polarfr8dog

Cargo,

First and foremost, I commend you for defending the CBA. However, we MUST have everyone steer away from the mentality of "data points." My answer to the Company is I could care less who is doing what. The CBA is the CBA and you signed it just like we signed it. You have employees violating the CBA everyday just as we have flight crews doing the same for their own convenience so it's a mute point.

Remember the question when you followed one of your friends into trouble doing something wrong as kid? Goes something like this: If he jumped off a bridge would you do it, too?

So, during negotiations, it's up to our Union to use the very same verbiage when sitting across the table. In other words, who cares as it doesn't matter what "data points" you have. This is what we need/want and go from there. Goes back to someone saying "What are you willing to give up?" Uhhhhhhhh . . . .. nothing. Except the "best effort" type of vague language in the CBA. Yeah, I'll give those words up in a heartbeat.

Cheers.

atpcliff

I have heard the above, but don't agree.

I agree with this...I don't care what the company "tries" to do or say. If following the contract is hurting an individual, and they want to do something different, that has NOTHING to do with the company following the contract. The contract is supposed to make things better for the pilots...not worse!

I think my idea will solve all of the above problems: Put in a clause that an individual pilot can request something that is "against" or "not in" the contract, and as long as it doesn't hurt the company, or hurt a fellow pilot, then it is allowed.

In my specific case, I wanted a longer duty day to get 3 more hours of sleep. If I heard the company saying, "Pilot X wanted to go longer than the duty day"...I would be...I don't care. The company can NOT ask or force someone to do a longer duty day, period. If a pilot requests a longer duty day for some reason, then the company grants it as long as it doesn't hurt the company or other pilots.

The contract is VERY generic, and there are ALL KINDS of situations that the contract doesn't cover. In the above case, it is OK to go for a longer duty day to go home....but not OK to do a longer duty day during the trip so I can get 3 hours more sleep? To me, that is crap. It is also a very unusual, very specific situation. The contract cannot cover every situation...it is 100% impractical.

That is why I want leeway for the PILOT to not have to follow the contract (providing it doesn't hurt the company or other pilots), but ZERO leeway for the COMPANY not to follow the contract. That can easily be written into the next contract, and then it is a much more workable document that actually covers every situation....it will make it better for the pilots, while at the same time not allow the company to abuse the pilots.

atpcliff

I would like to be in there for negotiations...I would be "FRACK your data points"!!!Give me all your documentation on those data points, and I will burn that pile of paper right here on the negotiating table!!!!

744driver

Some very good points, cargo...well, at least the last 4 or 5 you made

Twin Wasp

Yeah, but the company would want a clause that says they don't have to follow the CBA if it saves them money. Oh wait, they do that anyway.

cargowannabe

Looks like we have 4, yes you heard that right, 4 slates to pick and choose from.

cargo

WorldDC10

You don't have to pick the slates - you can choose from within the slates if there are some on the slate you don't like.

Have they all published websites?

crapgame

Long time lurker here - posted so many years ago that I didn't remember my passwords. So new handle......

As it happens, I know the guy who said those words. So I asked him about them. They are totally taken out of context.

Here is what he sent me:

For years I have been a loyal Atlas crewmember. I am now willing to give that up. Today I fight my own war in support of my union brothers and sisters, my livelihood, and my family.

I have seldom felt valued or respected by my company. But now I know, more than ever, that I am seen by the company as mere fodder. I am willing to give up being the fodder for their "missions."

Company supervisors and managers tell me I am their most important asset. What they really mean, and have demonstrated time and again, is that I am their most costly expense and can be cut any time they don’t agree with the CBA they signed. I am willing to give up being their most important asset.

Atlas has never exhibited labor leadership and it daily becomes more apparent to me. I have worked hard every year and did a good job because I am a professional. Now, while they exploit legal, contractual, and IRS loopholes; and fight with their employees merely for the game of it, I professionally plot their demise and I am willing to give up my time to do so.

Atlas used to enjoy my maximum efforts. I am willing to give that up. Now they will suffer my minimum required efforts because I have realized that I am an army of one and must join in lockstep my only allies; my union brothers.

I used to save Atlas customers thousands of Kilos of fuel per leg. Mostly by finding the best flight level, getting direct routing, throttling back when on-time was made, skimping during ground ops, adjusting for winds, flying smart and giving the company every effort I could conjure. I am willing to give that up. Now, it's "burn baby, burn”.

I used to proactively call maintenance while airborne, so the part would be ready in the chocks. I am willing to give that up. Now, they'll find the write-up when they look in the book.

I used to try to fix problems in the system. Especially those created by poor operational control decisions, ground operations blunders, or catering miscues. I am willing to give this up. Now I sit and watch as the errors and delays pile up.

I used to fly sick. I am willing to give this up. Now I use my sick days, on short notice, even on the worst days of the month. One thing I am NOT willing to give up is my health for the benefit of a company that cares little about me. I am an army of One and the only One that cares about my health.

I used to start the APU at the last possible moment to save Atlas customers fuel. I am willing to give this up. Now my freight and I always enjoy extreme comfort at Atlas expense. I am also NOT willing to give up the comfort that my crew and I enjoy.

I used to cover blunders by dispatch, travel, or scheduling. I am willing to give this up. Now I watch them unfold and will give up an on time departure to do so.

I used to hustle to ensure an on-time arrival or departure to make Atlas the best. I am willing to give this up. Now I never push for on time – I let events happen as they will; mechanics, loaders, and station agents can all take their time. I am willing to give up providing my best efforts; they don’t deserve it.

I used to call dispatch for rerouting, to head off ground delays, or for bad weather or unplanned landing at the re-dispatch airport. I am willing to give this up. Now I collect overtime: number 35 in line for takeoff? Fine! I am willing to give up an on time take off and have often done so already.

I used to plan on a long fruitful career at Atlas. I am willing to give this up. My resume can be found in every HR department of every other airline in the US that will offer better pay and benefits or at the very least treat me with the respect I deserve.

I am on a new "mission." A mission to demonstrate that Atlas leadership model of indifference and disrespect has a cost. It's about character, not contracts. It's about honesty, not conflict. It’s about integrity and leading by taking care of your people instead of leadership by so called labor relations “experts." By "being willing to give up" those things most dear to the company, I become a one-person wrecking crew - an army of One; for my union - for my brothers and sisters.

I used to be on a mission to make Atlas rich - I am willing to give that up. Now it's time to make them pay.

I used to tolerate scheduling changes, caused by poor or lazy schedulers, creating havoc in my life. I am willing to give that up. I will make them pay.

I used to tolerate it when they would play silly games such as gateway taxation, profit sharing withholding and bookkeeping “errors," airplane re-assignment and re-painting, vacation, paycheck, hotel, and insurance “errors.” I am willing to give that up. I will make them pay.

I used to not care when the VP of Procurement negotiated a reduced hotel room rate merely by doing away with a meal provided to all other guests just to save a dollar. I am willing to give that up. I care and I will make them pay.

I used to ignore the news about the Company consistently violating the letter as well as the spirit of our contract. A contract that's a bargain for the Company by any measure. I used to ignore it when they force us to fight lengthy grievances. I am willing to give that up. I will no longer ignore their antics and I will make them pay.

My Exco speaks for me, but I can and will act on my own. I am a walking nightmare to the Company and I have been unleashed. I am their worst fear yet a product of my own Company’s management team.

Are you with me?

This Atlas pilot has many years left to work within this industry. How long can they afford to keep me bitter? I'm not looking for clauses in a contract. I'm looking for a corporate culture of commitment and caring about the Atlas pilots who provide EVERY penny of income that Atlas Air makes. I am looking for leadership and integrity at the highest levels of Atlas management. When I see it, I'll be a soldier for Atlas again....

..... But for now

-- I am willing to give up my time to walk a picket line for my union.
-- I am willing to give up my $50 meal for knowingly violating my CBA.
-- I am willing to give up volunteering for out-basing and open time trying to make the money I am entitled to based on every industry comparison.
-- I am willing to give up volunteering for extended duty days or improper R1 call outs.
-- I am willing to give up using my money to fix the miscues of their travel department.
-- I am willing to give up my next flight (and the next) to delay this one for the catering that they are contractually required to provide and that makes this flight safe.
-- I am willing to give up my time to support my union brothers. On vacation, on days off - at any time.

I am an Army of One...And - trust me on this - I'm not alone!

Inter arma enim silent leges

cargowannabe

Yep they all have a website;

Myatlasunion.com
Ouratlasunion.com/org
Target2016.com
Atlaspilotsunited.com

Enjoy!

FR8Dog7

OK lets see, one is a dead link (Target2016.com), Myatlasunion.com has NO names of who is on the slate, And the fanciest web page is by a guy that was fired from the company for smoking dope!


Oh boy you guys are sure to get a great contract this time for sure!!!