LoneStarM1A

No they haven't provided an integrated seniority list to my knowledge, because of the union's argument that it should not be an Amalgamated/Arbitrated process.

Of course the pilots are prepared to strike, the 99% strike authorization vote last year indicates that. However a big reason for the company wanting the arbitration is because the pilots do not get to vote on a contract and therefore can't be released to a legal strike (with some rare exceptions). If an agreement can't be reached in 9 months, an arbitrator decides what the pilots get instead of the traditional process where they could be released to strike. That kind of process takes most of the union's leverage away.

kolt66

Yeah, makes sense because as soon as they did provide that list it would go to arbitration and be complete within a few months based on what I read in the excerpt you provided. Can Atlas force the Pilots to provide that list though?

So you don't trust an arbitrator and I get that but in 2011 when an arbitrator gave you the CBA you have now with the Polar merger we didn't have the pilot shortage like we have now and Kalitta and the legacy carriers and pretty much most of the other airlines including regionals didn't have the much improved contracts they have now so my question is: if it did go to arbitration wouldn't the arbitrator have to consider all of this and give Atlas pilots much more than they did in 2011?

JackStraw

That’s not the point. The point is you’re still merging a bankruptcy cba with a below industry average cba AND the same merger and acquisition clauses will remain unchanged so no pilot gets to vote on a cba possibly ever at Atlas. Basically, an arbitrator will always dictate what an Atlas pilot’s contract says indefinitely.

LoneStarM1A

Atlas is suing the teamsters to accomplish this, as far as I understand it, it has been almost a year since the suit was announced and it's still awaiting a court date. In the meantime the company benefits and the pilots suffer from a CBA which compensates their pilots at roughly half what many of their counterparts are making.

Who knows? It would be up to the whims of the arbitrator at that point. It's like living under a dictator - you might get a really nice and benevolent one or you might get a tyrant who absolutely beats you down. If you understand the nature of the American political system and the fact that is driven largely by money, labor groups should rightfully be wary of this type of scenario. Unions don't have the influence in Washington that corporate lobbyists have.

Av8Nw8T

Aside from all the lawsuit stuff, one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is first year pay.

Aside from it being low, you can be taxed on the amount that a ticket would cost you to get to base?!?
So... you ALSO pay to go to work!!

Atrasaty

It is my understanding that the arbitrator is bound by the limits of the two contracts he or she is merging unless given relief by each party. For example on the hourly rate Atlas is the higher and the limit for the arbitrator unless the company, which they will, give relief. The relief being K4+$1. The arbitrator the goes to the union with the option K4+$1 or Atlas current rate. The union has no choice but to sign off on the deal. This is what happened last time and is why management repeatedly say that we "agreed" to the wonderful contract last time. The arbitration process allows the company to dictate every facet of the contract....make no mistake about that. Arbitration is a total disaster for the pilot group and the judiciary is so anti labor it is probably where we are heading

kolt66

And after that contract is completed you won't be able to renegotiate for something like 5 years? Why is K4+$1 the best that the arbitrator can consider? Why not consider Fedex and UPS? Because they're not ACMI and Kalitta is?

Atrasaty

That's how it was explained to me by someone involved in the process last time. This is a merged contract arbitration not a section 6 contract negotiation. The arbitrator is not compelled or even permitted to exceed the bounds of the existing contracts without relief from the parties. He can't decide that the Atlas/Southern pilots are a great bunch of dudes, work harder than Fedex and deserve their contract. That's not within his brief and he has very little leverage to improve upon the existing CBA's without relief hence the K4+$1 if offerd by Atlas management. Sections not agreed to in the process that has management holding all of the cards (hence their enthusiasm for it) go to binding arbitration. If the economic climate has dramatically changed in several years when we get to that point, it may be current 5Y-$30.....who knows. Current book with a pay bump is probably the best we could hope for under this process. Apart from the fact that if he "left the reservation" so to speak, he would be an unemployed arbitrator because no business would ever select him again. Both parties have to agree on an arbitrator to start the process and trust me when I say there are NO good choices for labor. A pro labor arbitrator is an unemployed arbitrator.

Twin Wasp

Yes, it's considered a benefit. However, unlike medical insurance which is deducted before your tax is calculated, airfare from your gateway to your base and the cost of the hotel for your preduty rest is added to your pay. Then the 25-28 percent tax withholding is taken out. And then the cost of the airfare and hotel is taken out. So you end up paying 25 or 28 percent of the cost of your travel.

Twin Wasp

Yes, I was thinking they were asking why this didn't happen with mainline passenger operators.