Omni Air Pilot Negotiations update
08-23-2017, 08:29 AM
#291
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: 777 all
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by Heavy
Touché Stick, but don't be touched, I don't like you. Reading your previous posts it's abundantly clear what your all about. I have no use for people like you in life, you are greedy and egotistical. It's unfortunate that Omni had to lower its hiring standards and we are now forced to work with people like you. I am done with this now, Heavy out.
It’s Interesting you accuse others of being egotistical and greedy. You appear to be a shining example of both. At a minimum you appear to be much more willing to relinquish control to others.
That’s the odd thing. I have no desire whatsoever to restrict anyone’s freedom or liberty. I want you to have your say, and I want mine. Some here are not content with persuading others to vote no (If that’s your position) you want to prevent ANY vote until YOU approve the details. That is tyranny and runs counter to everything many of us believe in.
Honestly, some of the things I’ve heard recently could have passed the lips of Karl Marx himself. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of you participated in the “occupy wall street movement” or the “$15 an hour minimum wage”. Some of the slogans are reminiscent of 1920’s marches down red square.
And maybe that’s just where we disagree. I have a fundamentally different notion of human nature, the Employee/Employer relationship and the role of the Union toward its members.
To me the relationship should resemble more of an equal partnership with an increase of self-governance. Frequently asking for your input and apprising you of the situation where WE actively participate.
I don’t see us as bees in a hive, or ants in a colony - lacking the intellect or free will to choose our own course. Whenever power and control is centralized in such a manner in which the individual dues paying members have little say, it breeds discontent.
You may be perfectly happy with small handful of people controlling the process via the E board as an example, I am not.
08-23-2017, 08:31 AM
#292
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: CA/FO/IRO
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Heavy
I am not sure who you think I am but you are dead wrong. I never taught ground school at Omni nor did I ever say I was on the 777. And that's the honest to God truth. I am not sure how you came to that conclusion.
08-23-2017, 09:14 AM
#293
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 3
HELLO EVERY ONE, any new regard negotiation?
hello every one, im a new hire F/O looking forward regard the negotiation and what to expect.
if some FO can tell me how much are they taking home every month ill appreciate.
if some FO can tell me how much are they taking home every month ill appreciate.
Originally Posted by Dubiousbrother
Rosebud’s point is well taken.
The NC and executive board may in fact be able to extract more compensation and enhance work rules through further negotiations. However that does come with some risk and potential downside that some are ignoring such as:
1. If an economic downturn occurs or the current pilot shortage is disrupted by some unforeseen event. These are unlikely but the potential does exist and shouldn’t be overlooked.
2. The company could cease operations, sell, or lease the airplanes etc.
3. Every month, we are foregoing increased pay and benefits.
If at the margin, the committee is able to extract slight improvements, but those improvements involve an extended timeline, then it may take months or years to recoup the losses.
FL450 makes his case and appears willing to take that risk. Fair enough. I can respect his view.
But what about the members who have a differing view? Are they to be disregarded or shouted down?
You see the virtue of a vote is it accurately and justly reflects the will of the members. 450 has his say, and Rosebud has his. What could be better?
In many respects, the IBT has concentrated power within a handful of individuals who have the authority to deny the will of the majority.
Maybe some are opposed to the concept of the will of the majority. If that’s the case, just say so.
I believe Rosebud’s sentiments are reflected by most, and there is enormous discontent among the membership. If there is no move for a vote, then what is the effective recourse?
The NC and executive board may in fact be able to extract more compensation and enhance work rules through further negotiations. However that does come with some risk and potential downside that some are ignoring such as:
1. If an economic downturn occurs or the current pilot shortage is disrupted by some unforeseen event. These are unlikely but the potential does exist and shouldn’t be overlooked.
2. The company could cease operations, sell, or lease the airplanes etc.
3. Every month, we are foregoing increased pay and benefits.
If at the margin, the committee is able to extract slight improvements, but those improvements involve an extended timeline, then it may take months or years to recoup the losses.
FL450 makes his case and appears willing to take that risk. Fair enough. I can respect his view.
But what about the members who have a differing view? Are they to be disregarded or shouted down?
You see the virtue of a vote is it accurately and justly reflects the will of the members. 450 has his say, and Rosebud has his. What could be better?
In many respects, the IBT has concentrated power within a handful of individuals who have the authority to deny the will of the majority.
Maybe some are opposed to the concept of the will of the majority. If that’s the case, just say so.
I believe Rosebud’s sentiments are reflected by most, and there is enormous discontent among the membership. If there is no move for a vote, then what is the effective recourse?
08-23-2017, 01:32 PM
#294
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Position: Captain
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Dubiousbrother
What I value most is the sovereignty of the Individual and his or her right to make their own decisions. You seem to believe the individual pilot should only act with the Unions permission and guidance first.
It’s Interesting you accuse others of being egotistical and greedy. You appear to be a shining example of both. At a minimum you appear to be much more willing to relinquish control to others.
That’s the odd thing. I have no desire whatsoever to restrict anyone’s freedom or liberty. I want you to have your say, and I want mine. Some here are not content with persuading others to vote no (If that’s your position) you want to prevent ANY vote until YOU approve the details. That is tyranny and runs counter to everything many of us believe in.
Honestly, some of the things I’ve heard recently could have passed the lips of Karl Marx himself. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of you participated in the “occupy wall street movement” or the “$15 an hour minimum wage”. Some of the slogans are reminiscent of 1920’s marches down red square.
And maybe that’s just where we disagree. I have a fundamentally different notion of human nature, the Employee/Employer relationship and the role of the Union toward its members.
To me the relationship should resemble more of an equal partnership with an increase of self-governance. Frequently asking for your input and apprising you of the situation where WE actively participate.
I don’t see us as bees in a hive, or ants in a colony - lacking the intellect or free will to choose our own course. Whenever power and control is centralized in such a manner in which the individual dues paying members have little say, it breeds discontent.
You may be perfectly happy with small handful of people controlling the process via the E board as an example, I am not.
It’s Interesting you accuse others of being egotistical and greedy. You appear to be a shining example of both. At a minimum you appear to be much more willing to relinquish control to others.
That’s the odd thing. I have no desire whatsoever to restrict anyone’s freedom or liberty. I want you to have your say, and I want mine. Some here are not content with persuading others to vote no (If that’s your position) you want to prevent ANY vote until YOU approve the details. That is tyranny and runs counter to everything many of us believe in.
Honestly, some of the things I’ve heard recently could have passed the lips of Karl Marx himself. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of you participated in the “occupy wall street movement” or the “$15 an hour minimum wage”. Some of the slogans are reminiscent of 1920’s marches down red square.
And maybe that’s just where we disagree. I have a fundamentally different notion of human nature, the Employee/Employer relationship and the role of the Union toward its members.
To me the relationship should resemble more of an equal partnership with an increase of self-governance. Frequently asking for your input and apprising you of the situation where WE actively participate.
I don’t see us as bees in a hive, or ants in a colony - lacking the intellect or free will to choose our own course. Whenever power and control is centralized in such a manner in which the individual dues paying members have little say, it breeds discontent.
You may be perfectly happy with small handful of people controlling the process via the E board as an example, I am not.
Furthermore, I am not sitting back saying we need to blindly listen to our union, I am stating we need to give our negotiators time to do their job. The last thing we need is another contract with gray areas, I want something black and white. However, I understand everyone's situation is different and you absolutely have the right to vote how you choose. Like I stated before I like Omni and I want nothing more than to see Omni profitable and continuing on for years to come. This is a business that I have invested in and one that I want to see succeed.
I should have worded some of my other posts differently and I regret not getting my point across more tactfully. With that being said I hope everyone gets an opportunity to vote on something very soon.
08-23-2017, 05:37 PM
#295
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Position: Captain
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Rolloutflare
He thinks your either Fred or Eric. Pick one and run with it.
08-24-2017, 06:53 PM
#296
Banned
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 289
After reading 8 months worth of posts on this page it is sad to see so many fall for one of the oldest tricks in the book. That being management putting out the positives of their offer, no matter how incomplete it may be, and then publicly asking for the Union to allow the crewmembers to vote on it.
Very basic management strategy and unfortunate that you have so many who appear to fall for this bargaining 101 tactic. Luckily the process is designed to prevent this pathetic ploy by management to work. This is why you have a union in the first place. Its called "collective bargaining" for a reason folks.
Good luck to those here and keep the faith.
Very basic management strategy and unfortunate that you have so many who appear to fall for this bargaining 101 tactic. Luckily the process is designed to prevent this pathetic ploy by management to work. This is why you have a union in the first place. Its called "collective bargaining" for a reason folks.
Good luck to those here and keep the faith.
08-26-2017, 01:52 PM
#297
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Part 121, 135 & Military background
Posts: 379
Question to the forum:
The companies position is that Biz Class travel is too expensive because of our schedule and lack of opportunity to utilize company aircraft for dead head.
OK, there is some validity to this, so, in an effort to achieve "industry standard" why don't we find out how many actual Biz Class seats Atlas and K4 actually get. Surely management could not say that, that number of biz class seats would put them at a cost disadvantage. Right?
So here's the question:
If the average number of biz class seats is 15 (just made that number up from talking to my bud who was at K4 and now at Atlas)
Would you rather have 15 biz seats or the $$?
The companies position is that Biz Class travel is too expensive because of our schedule and lack of opportunity to utilize company aircraft for dead head.
OK, there is some validity to this, so, in an effort to achieve "industry standard" why don't we find out how many actual Biz Class seats Atlas and K4 actually get. Surely management could not say that, that number of biz class seats would put them at a cost disadvantage. Right?
So here's the question:
If the average number of biz class seats is 15 (just made that number up from talking to my bud who was at K4 and now at Atlas)
Would you rather have 15 biz seats or the $$?
08-26-2017, 05:33 PM
#298
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Window Seat
Posts: 1,430
Originally Posted by stickwiggler
Question to the forum:
The companies position is that Biz Class travel is too expensive because of our schedule and lack of opportunity to utilize company aircraft for dead head.
OK, there is some validity to this, so, in an effort to achieve "industry standard" why don't we find out how many actual Biz Class seats Atlas and K4 actually get. Surely management could not say that, that number of biz class seats would put them at a cost disadvantage. Right?
So here's the question:
If the average number of biz class seats is 15 (just made that number up from talking to my bud who was at K4 and now at Atlas)
Would you rather have 15 biz seats or the $$?
The companies position is that Biz Class travel is too expensive because of our schedule and lack of opportunity to utilize company aircraft for dead head.
OK, there is some validity to this, so, in an effort to achieve "industry standard" why don't we find out how many actual Biz Class seats Atlas and K4 actually get. Surely management could not say that, that number of biz class seats would put them at a cost disadvantage. Right?
So here's the question:
If the average number of biz class seats is 15 (just made that number up from talking to my bud who was at K4 and now at Atlas)
Would you rather have 15 biz seats or the $$?
I'm assuming year... cash please.
08-26-2017, 05:40 PM
#299
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 34
$$$. Definitely.
Better be a good amount though
Better be a good amount though
08-26-2017, 06:11 PM
#300
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,075
Originally Posted by stickwiggler
...Would you rather have 15 biz seats or the $$?
.............
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