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Omni Air Pilot Negotiations update

Old 12-17-2017, 02:17 PM
  #551  
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Originally Posted by RedWhiteAndBlue View Post
In effect, “Atlas” will not allow us to proceed until it meets their requirements. Its that simple. Its that obvious.
How, pray tell, is Atlas interfering with your negotiations?

I know that you aren’t complaining about the 1224 Executive Board, since they were just re-elected due to running completely unopposed.

I know that you surely can’t be stupid enough to complain about something like that when you *just* had to opportunity to at least nominate someone to run the 1224 E—board. But no one else was even nominated. So, surely, that is indicative that you are content with the current leadership.

No one would be stupid enough to complain about something like that when they just had the opportunity to participate in a democratic process to make sure that their voice is heard.
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Old 12-17-2017, 03:10 PM
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Ad Hominem attacks reveal quite a bit don’t they? Usually those kind of responses are indicative of a lack of substance and/or the ability to discuss things rationally. I have no intention of stooping that low because I don’t need to.

The E-board mechanism is not a secret. It is what it is.
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:27 AM
  #553  
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Originally Posted by FL450 View Post
A document drafted by one party.. is Just a wish list.

A Tentative AGREEMENT means that both parties have reached a place within their ZOPA that they feel meets the needs of the individuals they represent.

since there's no Agreement... there's nothing to potentially vote on

450
Let's be honest.

We all know that you cannot vote on an offer from the company, and I think you know this, but what people are suggesting is that the union accept the offer and give the pilots an opportunity to vote on that.

If you are opposed to that, great!

State your case... make an argument... be persuasive; but trying to mislead people with the suggestion that their is no way we can get to a vote doesn't help anyone.
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Old 12-18-2017, 06:23 AM
  #554  
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Originally Posted by stickwiggler View Post
450
Let's be honest.

We all know that you cannot vote on an offer from the company, and I think you know this, but what people are suggesting is that the union accept the offer and give the pilots an opportunity to vote on that.

If you are opposed to that, great!

State your case... make an argument... be persuasive; but trying to mislead people with the suggestion that their is no way we can get to a vote doesn't help anyone.

Stick did you just contradict yourself in your statement. there is nothing to vote on which was the point intended. Succumbing to a Boulerism style of negotiation is not what we elected our negotiators to do. The devil is in the details and the things they are fighting for directly affect your monthly expenses.

Putting in writing (contract language) wording that secures our healthcare policies and not just the companies empty promises is important. I'm not going to reiterate what an "Agreement" is but accepting just anything offered by the opposing bargaining party is a failed representation on the negotiators part. Let them continue doing their jobs.
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Old 12-18-2017, 07:03 AM
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It would appear even some Omni pilots realize they are the lowest of the low in the industry. They realize they are not worth anymore than what the company offered them.

That must be why they are demanding to vote on the company's latest offer.


It is such a shame some Omni pilots feel so worthless that they are willing to accept crumbs so that management/ownership can feast.
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Old 12-18-2017, 07:08 AM
  #556  
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Originally Posted by RedWhiteAndBlue View Post
Ad Hominem attacks reveal quite a bit don’t they? Usually those kind of responses are indicative of a lack of substance and/or the ability to discuss things rationally. I have no intention of stooping that low because I don’t need to.

The E-board mechanism is not a secret. It is what it is.
Ahhh, deflection to avoid answering the question. Still waiting to hear how Atlas is interfering with your negotiations? Can you offer any proof?

Or are you full of *? Or are you a management stooge just trying to create dissent in the ranks?

Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 12-23-2017 at 05:12 PM. Reason: TOU
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:58 AM
  #557  
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Originally Posted by Screwed View Post
It would appear even some Omni pilots realize they are the lowest of the low in the industry. They realize they are not worth anymore than what the company offered them.

That must be why they are demanding to vote on the company's latest offer.


It is such a shame some Omni pilots feel so worthless that they are willing to accept crumbs so that management/ownership can feast.
So you being at Atlas somehow qualifies you to speak for Omni Pilots? Last I checked there is an Atlas negotiations thread to comment on.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:13 AM
  #558  
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Originally Posted by RedWhiteAndBlue View Post
Ad Hominem attacks reveal quite a bit don’t they? Usually those kind of responses are indicative of a lack of substance and/or the ability to discuss things rationally. I have no intention of stooping that low because I don’t need to.

The E-board mechanism is not a secret. It is what it is.
I'll man up and offer an apology for what you perceived to be an ad-hominem argument. The underlying reason for the tone of the post was simply frustration.

You're right. The E-board mechanism isn't a secret. And it isn't supposed to be. It's not a grand conspiracy.

I'm trying my best to leave emotions out of this, but it's a bit difficult. Especially considering that I just read this on the 1224 site:

Omni Crew Members,

The Nomination Period for candidates to represent the Omni crew members as officers of the Local 1224 Executive Board and Omni Executive Council closed today at 12:00 noon ET.

Omni Executive Council
There were no nominations received for Executive Council Chairman (1 position) or Executive Council Member (2 positions). Because no nominations were received, an election will not be held and the Local 1224 Executive Board will appoint officers to fill the vacant positions on the Omni Executive Council.
So, not only did the Omni pilot group not nominate someone to run for President of the Local, but they didn't even bother to nominate their own Exco!

I understand being frustrated with the politics of it all and wanting to resign to fatalism because we tend to be so used to the idea that "my vote won't count" in life, but something like this is literally about as democratic a process as you're going to find. I cannot bring myself to believe that "Atlas" is in your way when your pilot group is so uninvolved to have not even ran their own elections for Exco.

This seems to be a perfect example of complaining about things without accepting the responsibility to fix them. And that is something which I cannot abide.
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:30 AM
  #559  
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Omni pilots are not the lowest of the low. Screwed’s inference that I think that is without merit. There are some things that can and should be relatively standard and others that are not. One size never fits all. In my opinion basic compensation for operating an airplane comes the closest to a standard item. Healthcare is probably another. Scheduling and the type of service an airline expects out of a pilot is highly dependent on business structure. Attempting to compare Atlas and Kalitta with Omni in that regard isn’t appropriate. The majority of A&K’s work is essentially scheduled service with the minority being ad hoc. Omni is the polar opposite. It makes perfect sense to me that this requires a different approach to ensuring your airplanes are ready to move.

Its my understanding that the current Omni offer is 16 days with premium pay for 17 and 18. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. This seems very reasonable to me. Couple that with hearing that at the last session “Atlas” okay’ed this ONLY IF negotiations opened up in 18 months. This is a ridiculous demand in my opinion. And it might be worth your time to go research why 1224 isn’t 747 anymore.

And Ryemex wonders at my skepticism.....if RyeMex and Screwed are actually Omni pilots and representative of the group as a whole we are more “screwed” than I thought.
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:08 PM
  #560  
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Originally Posted by RyeMex View Post
So, not only did the Omni pilot group not nominate someone to run for President of the Local, but they didn't even bother to nominate their own Exco.
I did bother to look up all my 1224 emails just now and did not receive a single notice of upcoming elections (I recall talking to a few guys who were planning on making opposing votes when an election did come about). I can't be the only one since no other airline seems to have nominated anyone. We should all pay more attention to that site... unfortunately this doesn't help us for two years.

In that same timeframe I've gotten a pile of updates from 1224 telling me to find another job instead of asking for input on the negotiation or providing concrete updates.
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