Upgrade time at Compass
 

What is the (realistic) current upgrade time at Compass?

By the time i get awarded upgrade (roughly 80 numbers away) it will be another 6 months plus 2-3 months waiting for the class.. going to be close to 2 years and 9 months. With the movement now, it will come down. But that’s where I’m at. Unfortunately, just enjoying seniority! ;)

I think 18 months to 30 months is pretty realistic for someone hired today. Depending on if hired today or a few months down the road...

This time will shorten if you have previous 121/135PIC/91K PIC time. Something to keep in mind.

well the waiting time as far as gathering hours will be less anyways.

Unfortunately having prior time won't help too much. Upgrades are going in seniority order and since it's around 2 years everybody will have the time by then so prior 121 peeps won't have a chance to bypass anyone less senior. The only way the upgrade time will drop is if senior FOs leave, the upgrade rate increases, or the company grows.

So what is the typical monthly block time you can log once you have a line number? And while I would assume upgrades are according to seniority, I would also assume it's based upon seniority of those with the required 1000 hours?

Edited - just read the new post. Forget the second question.

True, but I think it's fair to say that we have always seen a decent amount of FO attrition, and the upgrades will increase (because they have to). And there will always be some degree of bypassing because of those commuters who need to wait in order to upgrade into a line... anyone who comes with 1000 ratp and maybe is a commuter will build time slower... those types of things will delay upgrades and make some measure of bypassing possible. I agree though, in general, people will go in order. When you add all of the above up... on could feasibly upgrade in 18-24 months if they live in base, fly a lot, and start bidding for it at 950hrs.... the fact that we all expect little to no reserve for new hires this year definitely shortens the overall upgrade time.

95 is the highest you can get awarded on a monthly schedule, but you can go up to 117, so <100. I did like 97.5 once or twice, you just have to watch the 117 limits.

That's exactly right, seniority order for people who are 40hrs within 1000. Everybodys situation is different, not everyone takes the first class. We often lose 10-15 FOs a month which will accelerate your movement beyond the normal means.

so...
Previous Part 135 PIC time counts toward upgrade time at Compass? or is it Part 121 time? Sorry for the confusion... cd9

I don’t think we count it. But regardless it doesn’t matter because upgrade is in seniority order right now.

CP told me it did when I was at orientation.

But like u said upgrades are going by seniority right now.

If your time meets 121 requirements, it counts. If it doesn't, well......

Legally 135 pic time only counts toward 121 upgrade if its in a multi engine and you were atp qualified, in that aircraft, at that time. 135.243a(1)

I only know this because I thought my 135 pilatipus time might actually be good for something buuuuuut upon further review it still isnt.

Even if it meets 121 regs, the airline still may require 1000 company time. Even though that seems to be getting rarer and rarer these days.

Compass does not require any company time.

I know. I’m saying in general.

for the guys hired in Jan 2018, I would bet money they'll be senior enough to upgrade in 18 months. Our current upgrade time is bloated by a 8-month hiring/upgrade freeze. Now that there's actual movement, it looks very short. I spent a year at the bottom, now that I'm moving, to go from 98% to upgade territory looks like 16 months for me. I won't even have the hours in time as a RATP

Any Updates?
 

Just curious if the upgrade time is still at 2-3 years or is there a trend toward the 18 month mark?

Its sitting right at about 2 years for the last couple classes that went through. they are upgrading 8 a month right now.

For a lot of us, it now looks like it’s going to be closer to a 3 year upgrade unfortunately.

Or you can skip the upgrade like some have done and get UWE time at Spirit or Frontier instead

Good to know. Recruiting is still advertising 18-24 mo. Line pilots always have the real numbers though.

If 8 a month continues it will be about a 2 and a half year upgrade. Any increase in upgrades will bring it down. That's more for my seniority so not sure about junior guys.

Plus the moving target of FO attrition, which has always been steady

What are some of the most common factors driving FO attrition?

Flying with me.

Well some got jobs at legacys so why not? The others I'm guessing sick of commute, average to above average upgrade time, long reserve for some FOs depending when they got hired, and also regionals suck. The old days of having to do 6000 hours at a regional are starting to taper off and people are realizing that and saying "F it! if I'm gonna wait for a call I might as well do it flying an Airbus at a livable wage."

Anyone who’s in training now is looking at an 18 month upgrade in any of our bases if you ask me. The only reason “upgrade time is high” right now is because we got frozen for 8 months. Even with that 8 month freeze, I’m looking at just barely over 2 year upgrade.

Ha ha - rule #1: establish dominance.

Thanx for the explanation - the level of churn in the private sector is interesting to me coming from the rigid world of military aviation.

I'll have been here 2 years early this summer and I calculated about 10 more months to upgrade...

Where is one able to fly an Airbus (or any plane) at a livable wage? My understanding is those of us without an ATP and lower time have no choice but to go to the regionals to build time and get 121 experience before being competitive for a job at a major or legacy.

That's an awesome APC name, snowmankiller

I mean the FOs we have on property sitting on 1000+ TSIC. We're starting to leave for greener pastures or considering it.

That is correct but going right seat to right seat is getting easier. Get on with a regional and if sh*t hits the fan, you can go fly a bus at an LCC or even pray the legacies gods are in your favor. I think in Feb we had 2 CAs and 2 FOs go to Delta. Just food for thought.

Any idea if it'll go street captains in 2018?

Not here. They would need massive CA attrition and lots of FOs coming in who are waiting to build time for upgrade. Right now, it's upgrade in seniority order.

just to build on this. Anyone else doing street captains are doing because they don't have the qualified firs officers. We do. The problem is we are strugling with finding new fos to back fill the upgrades.