Bypass and Upgrade Requirements
08-27-2018, 03:38 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 118
Bypass and Upgrade Requirements
As of the 11-18 Vacancy, nearly every single flying First Officer at Compass was Bypassed. newhires in Indoc training are being awarded CA positions while over 200 FOs are being bypassed.
What’s going on? Is this an issue of hours? Are we really hurting that bad for qualified FOs?
Also - is it time to change the CBA upgrade minimums? Requiring 1500ME/2000TT or 1000ME/2500TT is not going to work with the pilots on our seniority list. We are on a very fast track to hire street captains.
What seems worse: a compass CA that’s never flown at compass before, or a compass CA that has only 1000 SIC at compass?
What are the company and union doing to address this sudden issue? The rate at which this problem sprang up is concerning.
I think I speak for all of us when I say we do not want street captains.
What’s going on? Is this an issue of hours? Are we really hurting that bad for qualified FOs?
Also - is it time to change the CBA upgrade minimums? Requiring 1500ME/2000TT or 1000ME/2500TT is not going to work with the pilots on our seniority list. We are on a very fast track to hire street captains.
What seems worse: a compass CA that’s never flown at compass before, or a compass CA that has only 1000 SIC at compass?
What are the company and union doing to address this sudden issue? The rate at which this problem sprang up is concerning.
I think I speak for all of us when I say we do not want street captains.
08-27-2018, 04:09 PM
#2
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by MainlineorSuici
As of the 11-18 Vacancy, nearly every single flying First Officer at Compass was Bypassed. newhires in Indoc training are being awarded CA positions while over 200 FOs are being bypassed.
What’s going on? Is this an issue of hours? Are we really hurting that bad for qualified FOs?
Also - is it time to change the CBA upgrade minimums? Requiring 1500ME/2000TT or 1000ME/2500TT is not going to work with the pilots on our seniority list. We are on a very fast track to hire street captains.
What seems worse: a compass CA that’s never flown at compass before, or a compass CA that has only 1000 SIC at compass?
What are the company and union doing to address this sudden issue? The rate at which this problem sprang up is concerning.
I think I speak for all of us when I say we do not want street captains.
What’s going on? Is this an issue of hours? Are we really hurting that bad for qualified FOs?
Also - is it time to change the CBA upgrade minimums? Requiring 1500ME/2000TT or 1000ME/2500TT is not going to work with the pilots on our seniority list. We are on a very fast track to hire street captains.
What seems worse: a compass CA that’s never flown at compass before, or a compass CA that has only 1000 SIC at compass?
What are the company and union doing to address this sudden issue? The rate at which this problem sprang up is concerning.
I think I speak for all of us when I say we do not want street captains.
Your points are legitimate.
Company doesn't care - they'll hire street captains.
Union guys don't care - they've got their union positions on their resume - that's all that matters to them.
08-27-2018, 04:19 PM
#3
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,501
Seriously, do we have that many in indoc with 1000 hrs of 121 time?
Clearly, it was predictable that the 6-7 month hiring freeze was going to stress the company hiring criteria and eventually bringing people in with only 25 hrs of ME and RATP with low total hours was going to perhaps lead to out of seniority order upgrades if it wasn't changed, but are we really there ALREADY?
How many of those 200 already have their 1000 of 121 but simply lack ME ot TT?
Clearly, it was predictable that the 6-7 month hiring freeze was going to stress the company hiring criteria and eventually bringing people in with only 25 hrs of ME and RATP with low total hours was going to perhaps lead to out of seniority order upgrades if it wasn't changed, but are we really there ALREADY?
How many of those 200 already have their 1000 of 121 but simply lack ME ot TT?
08-27-2018, 06:52 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 343
I'd chill out, I don't think we have actual street captains yet. That latest vacancy bid has some fishy stuff going on. One of the CA is going to be training only and not sure about JC but he worked at Compass and came back(?) - might just be doing instructing or something?
Irregardless, CA always goes quite a bit more junior whenever they run a class that large. I expect they won't be quite so large in the future,but we'll see. I was bypassed here and all it meant was when I did upgrade, I spent less time on reserve. It'll be okay, really.
Also, your post comes off as a bit entitled to me. Every captain here met the same minimums, what is so special about you that we have to change them just for you? If you came to Compass at 1000TT on a special Embry Riddle 141 thing, I don't think having to be 2500TT is so terrible. The rest of us had to get 1500TT before starting.
If you had the 1500TT, you'll have 2500TT/1000 turbine in the plane at the same time... first you got a special exemption from the FAA for the ATP mins, now you should get a special captain exemption? Nah. You can have 2500TT like all the other captains.
Irregardless, CA always goes quite a bit more junior whenever they run a class that large. I expect they won't be quite so large in the future,but we'll see. I was bypassed here and all it meant was when I did upgrade, I spent less time on reserve. It'll be okay, really.
Also, your post comes off as a bit entitled to me. Every captain here met the same minimums, what is so special about you that we have to change them just for you? If you came to Compass at 1000TT on a special Embry Riddle 141 thing, I don't think having to be 2500TT is so terrible. The rest of us had to get 1500TT before starting.
If you had the 1500TT, you'll have 2500TT/1000 turbine in the plane at the same time... first you got a special exemption from the FAA for the ATP mins, now you should get a special captain exemption? Nah. You can have 2500TT like all the other captains.
08-27-2018, 07:48 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: furloughed
Posts: 430
Originally Posted by TillerTemptress
I'd chill out, I don't think we have actual street captains yet. That latest vacancy bid has some fishy stuff going on. One of the CA is going to be training only and not sure about JC but he worked at Compass and came back(?) - might just be doing instructing or something?
Irregardless, CA always goes quite a bit more junior whenever they run a class that large. I expect they won't be quite so large in the future,but we'll see. I was bypassed here and all it meant was when I did upgrade, I spent less time on reserve. It'll be okay, really.
Also, your post comes off as a bit entitled to me. Every captain here met the same minimums, what is so special about you that we have to change them just for you? If you came to Compass at 1000TT on a special Embry Riddle 141 thing, I don't think having to be 2500TT is so terrible. The rest of us had to get 1500TT before starting.
If you had the 1500TT, you'll have 2500TT/1000 turbine in the plane at the same time... first you got a special exemption from the FAA for the ATP mins, now you should get a special captain exemption? Nah. You can have 2500TT like all the other captains.
Irregardless, CA always goes quite a bit more junior whenever they run a class that large. I expect they won't be quite so large in the future,but we'll see. I was bypassed here and all it meant was when I did upgrade, I spent less time on reserve. It'll be okay, really.
Also, your post comes off as a bit entitled to me. Every captain here met the same minimums, what is so special about you that we have to change them just for you? If you came to Compass at 1000TT on a special Embry Riddle 141 thing, I don't think having to be 2500TT is so terrible. The rest of us had to get 1500TT before starting.
If you had the 1500TT, you'll have 2500TT/1000 turbine in the plane at the same time... first you got a special exemption from the FAA for the ATP mins, now you should get a special captain exemption? Nah. You can have 2500TT like all the other captains.
Its time for you to upgrade so suddenly its an issue?
08-27-2018, 07:53 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 343
Originally Posted by jungle driver
^^^This^^^
Its time for you to upgrade so suddenly its an issue?
Its time for you to upgrade so suddenly its an issue?
How many diverts/medicals/true airplane emergencies have you even dealt with after 1000 hours in the plane? How many go arounds have you done? Windshear encounters? You'll be flying single pilot too and doing IOE and teaching landings and doing all kinds of sorts of things you never imagined, trust me. Nobody "owes" you an upgrade. It's not something you earn, your number simply comes up and you meet the minimum requirements. Now you're saying you want the minimum requirements lowered.
Sorry... you can meet the same minimums the rest of us did.
And what do you want the union to do? Amend the CBA? That would require an agreement with the company... it's not like they can just force the company to the table and say "you have to sign this LOA!" Contract isn't amendable for a few more years now.. If you're getting bypassed you'll just sit less reserve. Why be in such a hurry to give up your QOL? And the PIC hours don't matter, we have plenty of FO's getting hired at Delta or CA with very low PIC.
08-27-2018, 08:31 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,198
Originally Posted by TillerTemptress
And the PIC hours don't matter, we have plenty of FO's getting hired at Delta or CA with very low PIC.
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