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-   -   Corporate vs airline / starting at age 50 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/corporate/100052-corporate-vs-airline-starting-age-50-a.html)

cobalt650 07-02-2017 05:21 AM

Do companies respect the upward pressure on salaries due to the strong 121 hiring, or does that lag? Or does the attorney standard answer, "it depends," apply. Thanks!

Chris99 07-02-2017 06:14 AM


Originally Posted by cobalt650 (Post 2388508)
Do companies respect the upward pressure on salaries due to the strong 121 hiring, or does that lag? Or does the attorney standard answer, "it depends," apply. Thanks!

It lags. Right now they are getting by just fine with salaries that are ~60% of major airlines. The question is whether or not they can keep that up when the majors really start hiring due to retirements and growth.

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ZapBrannigan 07-02-2017 07:17 AM

They're probably waiting out a significant event that results in higher oil prices, lower point in the economic cycle. If they can wait out the "hire till we furlough" mentality at the majors, they'll be in a better bargaining position.


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Mink 07-02-2017 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by cobalt650 (Post 2388508)
Do companies respect the upward pressure on salaries due to the strong 121 hiring, or does that lag? Or does the attorney standard answer, "it depends," apply. Thanks!

In general, it's lagging. The only true incentive management feels to improve salaries is if they can't fill the pilot seats. The pilot supply/demand picture is starting to get some notice in the corp flying world, but not to the level where corporate flight departments are throwing money at pilots to keep them from jumping to the 121 world. Yet.

FlyitB 07-03-2017 03:44 AM

Corporate Flight departments are beginning to feel the pressure of folks moving around within corporate aviation or to the major airlines. I work for a large corporate aviation department and it is hands down the best job I have had. We have a great mix of airlines pilots (Prior UsAir and Delta) and lower time corporate pilots.

Prior to my current position I flew for Jet Aviation (Managed aircraft) around the world and the flying was awesome. Got to see a lot of cool things and stay in some great locations. But, as others were saying; you were close to your phone. Not that we had many pop up trips, but you kinda had to stay available. Prior to that, I spent 12 years at the airlines.

My current employer is not like that. My disclaimer is I really don't want to work. I would rather stay around the house and do what I want to do. This job allows me time to be an effective father and have a life!

We avg 4-8 days a month of flying 5% of that flying is on a weekend. (Mainly Sunday evenings).
No Holidays and No sitting by a phone.
We have a schedule that is online.
70% of the trips are out and backs.
No loading of a bunch of bags [if any at all]
All passengers request are handled by our schedulers/dispatchers.

Pay and benefits are not to bad here. Although they could be a tad better and I think we will get there over the next 12 months or so.

Don't knock the Corporate life... The issue is getting to a good Corporate Company and gives you a good balance.
Keeping your hotel points is awesome too! :)

cobalt650 07-05-2017 02:50 PM


Originally Posted by FlyitB (Post 2388846)
Corporate Flight departments are beginning to feel the pressure of folks moving around within corporate aviation or to the major airlines. I work for a large corporate aviation department and it is hands down the best job I have had. We have a great mix of airlines pilots (Prior UsAir and Delta) and lower time corporate pilots.

Prior to my current position I flew for Jet Aviation (Managed aircraft) around the world and the flying was awesome. Got to see a lot of cool things and stay in some great locations. But, as others were saying; you were close to your phone. Not that we had many pop up trips, but you kinda had to stay available. Prior to that, I spent 12 years at the airlines.

My current employer is not like that. My disclaimer is I really don't want to work. I would rather stay around the house and do what I want to do. This job allows me time to be an effective father and have a life!

We avg 4-8 days a month of flying 5% of that flying is on a weekend. (Mainly Sunday evenings).
No Holidays and No sitting by a phone.
We have a schedule that is online.
70% of the trips are out and backs.
No loading of a bunch of bags [if any at all]
All passengers request are handled by our schedulers/dispatchers.

Pay and benefits are not to bad here. Although they could be a tad better and I think we will get there over the next 12 months or so.

Don't knock the Corporate life... The issue is getting to a good Corporate Company and gives you a good balance.
Keeping your hotel points is awesome too! :)

Sounds like you've found a Home! Do you have significant duties outside of flying? Training, Safety, Operations oversight, etc? Or an expectation to be in the office when not flying? Thanks much.

FlyitB 07-06-2017 05:06 AM


Originally Posted by cobalt650 (Post 2389986)
Sounds like you've found a Home! Do you have significant duties outside of flying? Training, Safety, Operations oversight, etc? Or an expectation to be in the office when not flying? Thanks much.

There are no real duties outside of what you need to do to remain current. For Example, we are Level 3 (I think) IS-BAO certified so we have to do like 8 classes a year. "Pilot Fatigue, CRM.." stuff like that.

We go to recurrent every 6 months on our aircraft. (We are not dual qualified here, you only fly your type)
International Procedures Recurrent is required every 24 Months

No expectation to be in the office unless you have some required training that has to be done from an office computer or you need to complete your expense report.

Good People here too. No Micromanaging of your time. If you get your stuff done, you won't hear a peep from either of the CP's or Aviation Executive.

Best Luck,

cobalt650 07-07-2017 06:12 AM


Originally Posted by FlyitB (Post 2390209)
There are no real duties outside of what you need to do to remain current. For Example, we are Level 3 (I think) IS-BAO certified so we have to do like 8 classes a year. "Pilot Fatigue, CRM.." stuff like that.

We go to recurrent every 6 months on our aircraft. (We are not dual qualified here, you only fly your type)
International Procedures Recurrent is required every 24 Months

No expectation to be in the office unless you have some required training that has to be done from an office computer or you need to complete your expense report.

Good People here too. No Micromanaging of your time. If you get your stuff done, you won't hear a peep from either of the CP's or Aviation Executive.

Best Luck,


That. Is. Awesome:)

DSflyer05 07-24-2017 10:26 AM

Don't mean to hijack the OP but I'm in the same boat with 1 or 2 major differences and I'm interested to hear some opinions. So here it goes....
34 years old. Capt at a fortune 200 company flying a G550. Total compensation package of about 205/yr. of which about 150K in salary and the rest in bonus and stock, and 5% pension. Fly about 50% domestic and 50% Intl averages about 14 days per month, with no real pop up trips. And I'd like to think I'm on a management track between 5-10 years. My primary interests are Fedex or UPS if I were to go airlines.

Thanks for the input.



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mainlineAF 07-24-2017 12:02 PM


Originally Posted by DSflyer05 (Post 2399196)
Don't mean to hijack the OP but I'm in the same boat with 1 or 2 major differences and I'm interested to hear some opinions. So here it goes....
34 years old. Capt at a fortune 200 company flying a G550. Total compensation package of about 205/yr. of which about 150K in salary and the rest in bonus and stock, and 5% pension. Fly about 50% domestic and 50% Intl averages about 14 days per month, with no real pop up trips. And I'd like to think I'm on a management track between 5-10 years. My primary interests are Fedex or UPS if I were to go airlines.

Thanks for the input.



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Airlines. 100%.

galaxy flyer 07-24-2017 01:45 PM

Depending on your desires, a tough call. If you want to move to management and have the skills, corporate aviation directors can, and will continue to be able, to name their price. 300k-400k is no longer out of the box. I know several approaching that now. One turned down recall at UAL and another turned down FDX interview.

OTOH, if you just want fly and be on a seniority list, go airlines.


GF

Count Dracula 07-24-2017 02:37 PM


Originally Posted by DSflyer05 (Post 2399196)
Don't mean to hijack the OP but I'm in the same boat with 1 or 2 major differences and I'm interested to hear some opinions. So here it goes....
34 years old. Capt at a fortune 200 company flying a G550. Total compensation package of about 205/yr. of which about 150K in salary and the rest in bonus and stock, and 5% pension. Fly about 50% domestic and 50% Intl averages about 14 days per month, with no real pop up trips. And I'd like to think I'm on a management track between 5-10 years. My primary interests are Fedex or UPS if I were to go airlines.

Thanks for the input.



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At 34, I would not blink an eye. DAL, UAL, AAL, UPS, FDX, SWA should be your main targets.


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BoilerUP 07-24-2017 03:14 PM

I personally know more than a couple pilots who were flying super-mid or large cabin jets in their mid-30s who are now at UPS, FedEx or SWA.

100LL 07-24-2017 03:29 PM


Originally Posted by DSflyer05 (Post 2399196)
Don't mean to hijack the OP but I'm in the same boat with 1 or 2 major differences and I'm interested to hear some opinions. So here it goes....
34 years old. Capt at a fortune 200 company flying a G550. Total compensation package of about 205/yr. of which about 150K in salary and the rest in bonus and stock, and 5% pension. Fly about 50% domestic and 50% Intl averages about 14 days per month, with no real pop up trips. And I'd like to think I'm on a management track between 5-10 years. My primary interests are Fedex or UPS if I were to go airlines.

Thanks for the input.



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If you leave let me know. I wouldn't mind to have your job. :D

Skydriver02 07-26-2017 07:31 AM

Same Question only different
 
I am looking at the same situation, only everything on a smaller scale. Everything seems to be as the original question, except I am early in my career at 33 years old. Over 5,000 TT working on degree. I fly corporate/captain and make NBAA wages on a "under 20k" jet. Recently, I have been offered interviews at NetJets and Spirit, but my boss is incentivizing to stay by hiring another PIC and awarding hard days off to pilots. It's not bad QOL and am only gone 9 nights a month on average. With another PIC I'll get days off when needed. I'd love to hear from the guys that jumped from 91 to 121.
Goals are simply best QOL and fair pay. In the long run I don't want to work 20 days a month as household income is no problem. Suggestions?

BoilerUP 07-26-2017 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by Skydriver02 (Post 2399874)
I am looking at the same situation, only everything on a smaller scale. Everything seems to be as the original question, except I am early in my career at 33 years old. Over 5,000 TT working on degree. I fly corporate/captain and make NBAA wages on a "under 20k" jet. Recently, I have been offered interviews at NetJets and Spirit, but my boss is incentivizing to stay by hiring another PIC and awarding hard days off to pilots. It's not bad QOL and am only gone 9 nights a month on average. With another PIC I'll get days off when needed. I'd love to hear from the guys that jumped from 91 to 121.
Goals are simply best QOL and fair pay. In the long run I don't want to work 20 days a month as household income is no problem. Suggestions?

I went from CP of a NBAA Jet II department to a major cargo airline a few years ago while in my early 30s. I loved my corporate job - airplane wasn't the biggest and pay wasn't the highest, but my boss was great and my QOL was exceptional. I worked about 14-15 days per month, of which maybe 10-12 were flying and the remainder were 2-3 hour "days" at the office doing paperwork and/or the hangar doing database updates. Rarely flew weekends (maybe 10 total weekend days per year), every holiday off, family was welcome to come along on trips if seats were open.

I had the opportunity to take an airline job that happened to be in the same geographic area I was already living/working, and it was an absolute no-brainer from a long-term security and compensation perspective. QOL-wise, I knew I was going to be junior for a while and being junior means working crappy schedules...but I ended up becoming a "professional reserve" and generally working 10ish days per month. Sure I was on call, but that was pretty normal as a former corporate guy and I was at home vs. a crashpad. I have not worked a major holiday - been home Christmas, New Years, Thanksgiving, Fourth of July, Labor Day, Memorial Day, and been home almost every Valentines Day and birthday. Now I generally bid out-and-back trips; report around 2-3am, fly two or three legs, duty off 1030-1130am and do 12 of those a month (Tues-Thurs every week, or Tues-Fri three of four weeks). Home every day with weekends off.

I can't speak for Spirit or NJA, but living in domicile has afforded me an even better QOL than I had flying corporate - thankfully no more late-night or short-notice phone calls from the boss and the ability to easily make more money if I want by picking up open time. I don't accumulate hotel stays/points, and rental cars are on my dime, but having hard days off in advance and not having to stress about a broken plane and how to accomplish the mission has been nice.

IMO, early 30s, making the leap from 99% of small-cabin operations to a legacy or major cargo carrier is a no-brainer; a fractional or ULCC may require exploring the value proposition a bit closer and I'd put heavy emphasis on location if QOL is a driver - commuting sucks.

Skydriver02 07-26-2017 08:37 AM


Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 2399888)
I went from CP of a NBAA Jet II department to a major cargo airline a few years ago while in my early 30s. I loved my corporate job - airplane wasn't the biggest and pay wasn't the highest, but my boss was great and my QOL was exceptional. I worked about 14-15 days per month, of which maybe 10-12 were flying and the remainder were 2-3 hour "days" at the office doing paperwork and/or the hangar doing database updates. Rarely flew weekends (maybe 10 total weekend days per year), every holiday off, family was welcome to come along on trips if seats were open.

I had the opportunity to take an airline job that happened to be in the same geographic area I was already living/working, and it was an absolute no-brainer from a long-term security and compensation perspective. QOL-wise, I knew I was going to be junior for a while and being junior means working crappy schedules...but I ended up becoming a "professional reserve" and generally working 10ish days per month. Sure I was on call, but that was pretty normal as a former corporate guy and I was at home vs. a crashpad. I have not worked a major holiday - been home Christmas, New Years, Thanksgiving, Fourth of July, Labor Day, Memorial Day, and been home almost every Valentines Day and birthday. Now I generally bid out-and-back trips; report around 2-3am, fly two or three legs, duty off 1030-1130am and do 12 of those a month (Tues-Thurs every week, or Tues-Fri three of four weeks). Home every day with weekends off.

I can't speak for Spirit or NJA, but living in domicile has afforded me an even better QOL than I had flying corporate - thankfully no more late-night or short-notice phone calls from the boss and the ability to easily make more money if I want by picking up open time. I don't accumulate hotel stays/points, and rental cars are on my dime, but having hard days off in advance and not having to stress about a broken plane and how to accomplish the mission has been nice.

IMO, early 30s, making the leap from 99% of small-cabin operations to a legacy or major cargo carrier is a no-brainer; a fractional or ULCC may require exploring the value proposition a bit closer and I'd put heavy emphasis on location if QOL is a driver - commuting sucks.

That is exceptional information and a very similar situation to my current employment. You hit the nail on the head about being on call, worrying about trips and "extra duties". Thank you for giving me some insight into the transition for you. Unfortunately I haven't had a call from a legacy so Spirit (Frontier offered interview as well) is the only option at this point. I believe that call could happen with time, but wanted to position myself best today.

Thanks for taking the time to give insight.

Sliceback 07-26-2017 01:37 PM

You need a four year degree for a major airline. It's not 100% required but it's over 99%, and possible 99.7% to 99.9%, in the recent past.

Skydriver02 07-26-2017 02:13 PM


Originally Posted by Sliceback (Post 2400012)
You need a four year degree for a major airline. It's not 100% required but it's over 99%, and possible 99.7% to 99.9%, in the recent past.

Fully aware and working on it. It will be completed either way. Probably 1 year left. Then masters. Already accepted to M.S. The question was more geared to QOL differences from guys that made the switch.

cobalt650 07-30-2017 10:25 AM

How long do Chief Pilots typically stay in their position? A few years, a decade, until they retire?

Vital Signs 07-30-2017 11:51 AM


Originally Posted by cobalt650 (Post 2401691)
How long do Chief Pilots typically stay in their position? A few years, a decade, until they retire?

Until they die.

galaxy flyer 07-30-2017 05:57 PM

I just retired as one after two years; but many go on and on....others, not adept and leading their troops or can't deal with the corporate office are gone in short order. It's a delicate game that needs deep people skills.

GF


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