Seeking Your Corporate Part 91 Experiences
05-23-2017, 07:27 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 945
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
I was CP of a small 91 flight department (one Citation, one Cirrus) and greatly enjoyed the job and the experience.
There were a few things that were a PITA - battles that you really shouldn't have to fight, created by people that either refused to say "No" previous to you or somebody who knew just enough to form an opinion - but in the grand scheme I had an excellent boss who understood the limitations (and realities - $$$) of operating turbine aircraft and largely left me alone to manage as I saw fit.
Airplanes were impeccably maintained.
All expenses on AMEX Platinum card, nothing reasonable was ever questioned ("unreasonable" expenses were explained and rationalized). Cleaned oil off the belly of our Cirrus every so often but never cleaned the jet more than wiping bugs and spot stain removing in the cabin. Never did "b-work".
HMFIC was very good to me, flexible with family health concerns.
So why did I leave? I was in my very early 30s working for a principal who was in his late 50s and basically topped out on earning potential, and didn't want to miss a massive hiring wave and end up looking for work when my children were nearing college.
I appreciate that experience, and I'm a better pilot for it.
There were a few things that were a PITA - battles that you really shouldn't have to fight, created by people that either refused to say "No" previous to you or somebody who knew just enough to form an opinion - but in the grand scheme I had an excellent boss who understood the limitations (and realities - $$$) of operating turbine aircraft and largely left me alone to manage as I saw fit.
Airplanes were impeccably maintained.
All expenses on AMEX Platinum card, nothing reasonable was ever questioned ("unreasonable" expenses were explained and rationalized). Cleaned oil off the belly of our Cirrus every so often but never cleaned the jet more than wiping bugs and spot stain removing in the cabin. Never did "b-work".
HMFIC was very good to me, flexible with family health concerns.
So why did I leave? I was in my very early 30s working for a principal who was in his late 50s and basically topped out on earning potential, and didn't want to miss a massive hiring wave and end up looking for work when my children were nearing college.
I appreciate that experience, and I'm a better pilot for it.
Agree 100% with the precedent of the owners never being told "no". It's a balancing act. You have to remember why they own an airplane and accommodate as much as the situation allows, but you also have to be mindful of "if we do it this once, they'll expect it every time..."
So wait, what was the question? Need more coffee...
05-23-2017, 02:04 PM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: CJ4
Posts: 63
I have flown a citation for 7 yrs for my current company and have flown corporate for a total of 22 yrs. I also have done the regional airline thing for a couple of years prior to the "Great Recession" and was furloughed.
In my current job I do the following:
Fly 550 hrs/yr.
Fly average of 17 days/month.
On call 24/7, except for 2 weeks vacation.
Fly 1 to 2 weekends/month.
110 overnights on average.
Keep plane and hangar clean.
Provide my own line service. (towing, fueling, lav, etc.)
Manage/schedule all maintenance.
Line up all rental cars for pax and self.
Stock galley supplies, provide catering on request.
Do all trip/flight planning.
Approve all invoices relating to plane/hangar.
Keep up all necessary subscriptions/pubs.
Arrange all training.
This is somewhat typical of the jobs that I have held on the corporate side.
My salary is in line with a Captain at a decent regional but I don,t have to commute, which is what keeps me coming back. Plus I'm in my 50's so what airline would want me
?
If I were young I would go the 121 route.
Hope this helps.
In my current job I do the following:
Fly 550 hrs/yr.
Fly average of 17 days/month.
On call 24/7, except for 2 weeks vacation.
Fly 1 to 2 weekends/month.
110 overnights on average.
Keep plane and hangar clean.
Provide my own line service. (towing, fueling, lav, etc.)
Manage/schedule all maintenance.
Line up all rental cars for pax and self.
Stock galley supplies, provide catering on request.
Do all trip/flight planning.
Approve all invoices relating to plane/hangar.
Keep up all necessary subscriptions/pubs.
Arrange all training.
This is somewhat typical of the jobs that I have held on the corporate side.
My salary is in line with a Captain at a decent regional but I don,t have to commute, which is what keeps me coming back. Plus I'm in my 50's so what airline would want me
?If I were young I would go the 121 route.
Hope this helps.
05-23-2017, 03:33 PM
#13
Where's my Mai Tai?
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: fins to the left, fins to the right
Posts: 1,723
Originally Posted by dozer
My salary is in line with a Captain at a decent regional but I don,t have to commute, which is what keeps me coming back. Plus I'm in my 50's so what airline would want me ?
If I were young I would go the 121 route.
Hope this helps.
?If I were young I would go the 121 route.
Hope this helps.
Not that I would recommend a change, just letting you know it wouldn't be hopeless.
05-23-2017, 10:05 PM
#14
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 3
I want to thank everyone for their input. It is a certainly a big decision and I appreciate the different points of view.
While there are many different things we look for, I think given the chance, many would potentially take a job with a good company and QOL like the one “Falcondrivr” has. Those jobs unfortunately (for those searching) have a very low turnover rate. Even on what seems to be a descent (but not fortune…anything) company at first glance, I’m finding that having a family, the potential for earnings over the long-term, retirement and travel benefits with the airlines are weighing much higher than I previously thought. While commuting is not high on my list of priorities, those other factors are making me lean away from the part 91 world to try my hand at the 121 world. Could be a false sense of security but hopefully, it will pay in the end.
While there are many different things we look for, I think given the chance, many would potentially take a job with a good company and QOL like the one “Falcondrivr” has. Those jobs unfortunately (for those searching) have a very low turnover rate. Even on what seems to be a descent (but not fortune…anything) company at first glance, I’m finding that having a family, the potential for earnings over the long-term, retirement and travel benefits with the airlines are weighing much higher than I previously thought. While commuting is not high on my list of priorities, those other factors are making me lean away from the part 91 world to try my hand at the 121 world. Could be a false sense of security but hopefully, it will pay in the end.
11-10-2017, 02:39 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by Lvflying
I want to thank everyone for their input. It is a certainly a big decision and I appreciate the different points of view.
While there are many different things we look for, I think given the chance, many would potentially take a job with a good company and QOL like the one “Falcondrivr” has. Those jobs unfortunately (for those searching) have a very low turnover rate. Even on what seems to be a descent (but not fortune…anything) company at first glance, I’m finding that having a family, the potential for earnings over the long-term, retirement and travel benefits with the airlines are weighing much higher than I previously thought. While commuting is not high on my list of priorities, those other factors are making me lean away from the part 91 world to try my hand at the 121 world. Could be a false sense of security but hopefully, it will pay in the end.
While there are many different things we look for, I think given the chance, many would potentially take a job with a good company and QOL like the one “Falcondrivr” has. Those jobs unfortunately (for those searching) have a very low turnover rate. Even on what seems to be a descent (but not fortune…anything) company at first glance, I’m finding that having a family, the potential for earnings over the long-term, retirement and travel benefits with the airlines are weighing much higher than I previously thought. While commuting is not high on my list of priorities, those other factors are making me lean away from the part 91 world to try my hand at the 121 world. Could be a false sense of security but hopefully, it will pay in the end.
Surely having jet PIC time, won't hurt if you're looking to fly a King Air, Citation, Challenger, Gulfstream, etc.
11-13-2017, 09:41 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: BD-700A
Posts: 210
I graduated in the fall of 2001, so my choices were extremely thin walking straight out of college with a degree that was about as useful as toilet paper after that fateful day. I was hired into the right seat program at what was then, GE Capital Simuflite. I worked mostly in Lears and other light aircraft for over a decade, charter and 91 alike. I was given an opportunity 6yrs ago to fly a Global after many years networking and sharpening the resume'.
Today, I am currently a captain for a Fortune 200 outfit making 4th Year Captain pay at FedEx with one week on, one week off schedule & a month of vacation a year. Great right? I say all this in jest because I'm sitting at 38yrs old, looking at what the retirement among places such as Delta, FX or UPS are currently offering. It is light years better than what is currently offered at my current employer. The stability is slightly better at my current company as they have had a department nearly 60yrs without any layoffs.
But yet I still peek over the proverbial fence.
Without knowing your age or experience, I would tell you to go the 121 route, simply too many retirements and not enough folks to fill them. At any quality corporate department, you will have SOP's, ERP's & Company Ops Specs like many before me have stated. That should be the least of your concerns as if they don't, run the other direction. Times have changed, and a vast majority of upper management understands the value of safety and compliance.
Either way I think you are in a great position for the future. Keep us updated on what you decide and & best of luck!
Today, I am currently a captain for a Fortune 200 outfit making 4th Year Captain pay at FedEx with one week on, one week off schedule & a month of vacation a year. Great right? I say all this in jest because I'm sitting at 38yrs old, looking at what the retirement among places such as Delta, FX or UPS are currently offering. It is light years better than what is currently offered at my current employer. The stability is slightly better at my current company as they have had a department nearly 60yrs without any layoffs.
But yet I still peek over the proverbial fence.
Without knowing your age or experience, I would tell you to go the 121 route, simply too many retirements and not enough folks to fill them. At any quality corporate department, you will have SOP's, ERP's & Company Ops Specs like many before me have stated. That should be the least of your concerns as if they don't, run the other direction. Times have changed, and a vast majority of upper management understands the value of safety and compliance.
Either way I think you are in a great position for the future. Keep us updated on what you decide and & best of luck!
Originally Posted by Lvflying
Hello Everyone,
I am new to both the forums and corporate flying in general. Looking for information and personal experiences from those who don't mind sharing. Especially (but not limited to those with experience on Citations and Challengers). I have an offer from a regional but am also interested in corporate part 91 flying.
While I understand that there are good and bad things to everything and a wide range of experiences and opinions, here is what I'm looking at:
1. Airlines: Pretty structured flying and procedures intensive. Low pay initially but worth in on the long run. Can become routine.
2. "Charter/135": Fairly structured as well. Interesting destinations which keep you on your toes and provide variety. Descent pay at times but some may take to interpreting rules loosely in the interest of profit (enough said).
3. Companies with flight departments flying part 91: While some have very capable planes, they have the least regulation. Potentially, good pay. Also, very high potential for fun/interesting flying.
I'm very drawn to the "airlines" because of the income potential after paying my dues for a while and the greater adherence to procedures and safety. At the same time, I believe that could also be found with a part 91 operator and potentially have a better schedule right from the start, BUT, am a bit skeptical as profit seems to at times override safety and regulations making for not so fun moments (again POTENTIALLY). So with that......
Do these part 91 operators generally listen, are reasonable when input is given regarding safety or being mostly type A and results driven, they disregard advice?
Experiences flying the CE-500/560, Challenger 604
Any experiences are welcomed as are any things to keep in mind which could help me find out culture, safety, and general environment of a potential part 91 company.
Thanks to everyone in advance....
I am new to both the forums and corporate flying in general. Looking for information and personal experiences from those who don't mind sharing. Especially (but not limited to those with experience on Citations and Challengers). I have an offer from a regional but am also interested in corporate part 91 flying.
While I understand that there are good and bad things to everything and a wide range of experiences and opinions, here is what I'm looking at:
1. Airlines: Pretty structured flying and procedures intensive. Low pay initially but worth in on the long run. Can become routine.
2. "Charter/135": Fairly structured as well. Interesting destinations which keep you on your toes and provide variety. Descent pay at times but some may take to interpreting rules loosely in the interest of profit (enough said).
3. Companies with flight departments flying part 91: While some have very capable planes, they have the least regulation. Potentially, good pay. Also, very high potential for fun/interesting flying.
I'm very drawn to the "airlines" because of the income potential after paying my dues for a while and the greater adherence to procedures and safety. At the same time, I believe that could also be found with a part 91 operator and potentially have a better schedule right from the start, BUT, am a bit skeptical as profit seems to at times override safety and regulations making for not so fun moments (again POTENTIALLY). So with that......
Do these part 91 operators generally listen, are reasonable when input is given regarding safety or being mostly type A and results driven, they disregard advice?
Experiences flying the CE-500/560, Challenger 604
Any experiences are welcomed as are any things to keep in mind which could help me find out culture, safety, and general environment of a potential part 91 company.
Thanks to everyone in advance....
11-14-2017, 10:49 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: CEO
Posts: 193
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
My department ran pretty much like my AMC squadron as to rules and scheduling, including set crew rest times, post-trip recovery days and monthly hard days off. We also had a scheduled 36-hour break every eight days. It helped that we were mostly ex-service.
Some of the most interesting and demanding flying, too.
What Falcondrvr is true.
GF
Some of the most interesting and demanding flying, too.
What Falcondrvr is true.
GF
11-19-2017, 10:49 AM
#18
Gets EVERY weekend off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: SIC
Posts: 1,367
Originally Posted by dozer
I have flown a citation for 7 yrs for my current company and have flown corporate for a total of 22 yrs. I also have done the regional airline thing for a couple of years prior to the "Great Recession" and was furloughed.
In my current job I do the following:
Fly 550 hrs/yr.
Fly average of 17 days/month.
On call 24/7, except for 2 weeks vacation.
Fly 1 to 2 weekends/month.
110 overnights on average.
Keep plane and hangar clean.
Provide my own line service. (towing, fueling, lav, etc.)
Manage/schedule all maintenance.
Line up all rental cars for pax and self.
Stock galley supplies, provide catering on request.
Do all trip/flight planning.
Approve all invoices relating to plane/hangar.
Keep up all necessary subscriptions/pubs.
Arrange all training.
This is somewhat typical of the jobs that I have held on the corporate side.
My salary is in line with a Captain at a decent regional but I don,t have to commute, which is what keeps me coming back. Plus I'm in my 50's so what airline would want me ?
If I were young I would go the 121 route.
Hope this helps.
In my current job I do the following:
Fly 550 hrs/yr.
Fly average of 17 days/month.
On call 24/7, except for 2 weeks vacation.
Fly 1 to 2 weekends/month.
110 overnights on average.
Keep plane and hangar clean.
Provide my own line service. (towing, fueling, lav, etc.)
Manage/schedule all maintenance.
Line up all rental cars for pax and self.
Stock galley supplies, provide catering on request.
Do all trip/flight planning.
Approve all invoices relating to plane/hangar.
Keep up all necessary subscriptions/pubs.
Arrange all training.
This is somewhat typical of the jobs that I have held on the corporate side.
My salary is in line with a Captain at a decent regional but I don,t have to commute, which is what keeps me coming back. Plus I'm in my 50's so what airline would want me
?If I were young I would go the 121 route.
Hope this helps.
Each pilot here flies 200-250 Hours a year
7-11 Days/Month
One weekend off/Month guaranteed
two days during the week off/month guaranteed
If no weekend flights are scheduled, one crew remains on call, other crew members are now Off
2-3 overnights/month
Aircraft have in base cleaning service
Aircraft are in base stocking service
We do all flight planning and FRA's
Schedule is typically posted weeks in advance (we already have a tentative 2018 schedule for company travel)
Rental Cars and Hotels are taken care of by the scheduler
Passenger names and destination arrangements are taken care of by the scheduler
Maintenance is arranged by the management company's Chief of Maintenance who does a great job
12-24-2017, 12:52 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Position: AA TBD
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by flynavyj
OMG - They keep you BUSY!
Each pilot here flies 200-250 Hours a year
7-11 Days/Month
One weekend off/Month guaranteed
two days during the week off/month guaranteed
If no weekend flights are scheduled, one crew remains on call, other crew members are now Off
2-3 overnights/month
Aircraft have in base cleaning service
Aircraft are in base stocking service
We do all flight planning and FRA's
Schedule is typically posted weeks in advance (we already have a tentative 2018 schedule for company travel)
Rental Cars and Hotels are taken care of by the scheduler
Passenger names and destination arrangements are taken care of by the scheduler
Maintenance is arranged by the management company's Chief of Maintenance who does a great job
Each pilot here flies 200-250 Hours a year
7-11 Days/Month
One weekend off/Month guaranteed
two days during the week off/month guaranteed
If no weekend flights are scheduled, one crew remains on call, other crew members are now Off
2-3 overnights/month
Aircraft have in base cleaning service
Aircraft are in base stocking service
We do all flight planning and FRA's
Schedule is typically posted weeks in advance (we already have a tentative 2018 schedule for company travel)
Rental Cars and Hotels are taken care of by the scheduler
Passenger names and destination arrangements are taken care of by the scheduler
Maintenance is arranged by the management company's Chief of Maintenance who does a great job
Fly about 175 hours/year
Director of Aviation tracks and levels days worked and weekend days worked with goal of all co-captains work same amount of days. Averaged about 125 days for the first year. Weekends are a crapshoot but they strive to distribute the pain. 1/3 of those days were day-trips.
Only come in when needed to fly, given laptop to trip plan at home.
2-hour call-out 0700-1700 M-F and same if you're on for the weekend. Weekend schedule goes firm on Thursday. Usually one weekend off per month.
We clean the inside of the jets, FA stock the jets. Appearance techs do the outside.
Schedule is in flux constantly with big trips scheduled further out. A lot of trips drop with a couple days notice. A lot of the same destinations repeatedly.
Rentals and hotel handled by company. Reasonable meals to corporate card.
Really good maintenance
I have 19 days vacation year 1 and vacation days drop your trips if they encroach on a vacation day or you don't want a trip and take vacation.
Have really been considering jump to majors since my schedule won't change with seniority but pay and company are great.
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