Seeking Your Corporate Part 91 Experiences
10-24-2018, 06:32 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
The good ones I know of have had fixed schedules for years, four or five pilots, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off and they know exactly what they’re doing for the year. Not infrequently, their 2 weeks on might only involve a short trip. The plane’s hangared 30 minutes away from their homes and pay is B737 captain. Another one’s owner has a pretty fixed schedule, pay is 300k+, all commuting is expensed, and the owner’s big annual vacation is a freebie for him, expense the family coming along. And he gets 3 weeks, contract pilot or scheduled maintenance done.
Good ones will go on, poor to middling operations will see turnover, high training costs or rightfully blow away. I’ve seen this act before in the past forty years.
GF
Good ones will go on, poor to middling operations will see turnover, high training costs or rightfully blow away. I’ve seen this act before in the past forty years.
GF
Those guys like you mentioned are gonna be fine. Operators like that probably only employ maybe 1% of corporate pilots though. And that's a big maybe. To the other 99% they better get on board or get left behind. Because once all these skilled captain qualified guys go to the airlines they ain't coming back.
10-24-2018, 10:39 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
I’ve heard “unprecedented” before, color me dubious. 1965-66 had airlines panicked over where would the next generation come from, advertising, training sponsorships. After the dead decade of the 1970s, by 1985, it was another panic. In 1980, I was peeling resumes off the Citation I flew during pre-flights. AA’s two-tier contract caused huge hiring, on my God where are we going to get pilots. I was at HPN in 1984, flying corporate and the chief pilots were panicking, stealing from other departments after years of “will you fly for me just for the experience”. 1999 looked darn near as “unprecedented”; loads of hiring, declining military pilot population due to post-Cold War drawdown, peace everywhere, exploding contracts, Vietnam generation on the cusp of retiring.
As Harold Macmillan said on what effects politics, “Events, my dear boy, events”.
GF
As Harold Macmillan said on what effects politics, “Events, my dear boy, events”.
GF
10-24-2018, 11:12 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Left seat on a kite
Posts: 1,884
Originally Posted by billsaw
What he said. This is pretty much a done deal at this point all that needs to happen is for it to play out.
Corporate and private flight departments over the next few years will either be running fixed schedules for their crews like 7 on 7 off (you know like the airlines, netjets, etc) or they will have a really nice shiny bird in the hangar that doesn't move.
All you guys have to do is find another job and quit. It's really that simple. Go to the airlines and join the movement. These departments and management companies that have abused pilots for so long by keeping them on the road or on call will either change drastically or park em.
As for the pilots that enabled this behavior they can be split into two types. Exited and can't wait to get the eff out from under the thumb of their oppressive masters and have a life that doesn't involve waiting on a phone call 24/7/365. Or the the old "battered women" pilot. Just too scared to leave for fear of what's on the outside.
To those excited to leave. They are gonna be very pleased at what they find. To the chickens (would use another term but can't) that loved to be abused... Have fun with that and good luck! Just remember your guy won't change until you do. So enjoy the beatings
Somebody told me the a long time ago that sometimes the best way to move up is to move on. That's what it will take.
Corporate and private flight departments over the next few years will either be running fixed schedules for their crews like 7 on 7 off (you know like the airlines, netjets, etc) or they will have a really nice shiny bird in the hangar that doesn't move.
All you guys have to do is find another job and quit. It's really that simple. Go to the airlines and join the movement. These departments and management companies that have abused pilots for so long by keeping them on the road or on call will either change drastically or park em.
As for the pilots that enabled this behavior they can be split into two types. Exited and can't wait to get the eff out from under the thumb of their oppressive masters and have a life that doesn't involve waiting on a phone call 24/7/365. Or the the old "battered women" pilot. Just too scared to leave for fear of what's on the outside.
To those excited to leave. They are gonna be very pleased at what they find. To the chickens (would use another term but can't) that loved to be abused... Have fun with that and good luck! Just remember your guy won't change until you do. So enjoy the beatings
Somebody told me the a long time ago that sometimes the best way to move up is to move on. That's what it will take.
Many have what they want out of their corporate jobs and have no desire to start over and deal with the airline life. For others, airline life on the menopause missle to Tokyo is their wet dream.....Good for them
But for those who allow themselves to be stuck in the rut of a mediocre or even bad corporate outfit, let their poor choice effect them. No need to lump all into their bag of bad choices.
10-24-2018, 11:13 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Left seat on a kite
Posts: 1,884
Originally Posted by rickair7777
If your 121 baseline was L-USA, or anyone who liquidated in the last decade, the majors are much mo betta now.
10-24-2018, 04:16 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Left seat on a kite
Posts: 1,884
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
I don’t think rickair777, was referring to moi.
GF
GF
The idiot has been found....it was me.
10-24-2018, 05:55 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
I’ve heard “unprecedented” before, color me dubious. 1965-66 had airlines panicked over where would the next generation come from, advertising, training sponsorships. After the dead decade of the 1970s, by 1985, it was another panic. In 1980, I was peeling resumes off the Citation I flew during pre-flights. AA’s two-tier contract caused huge hiring, on my God where are we going to get pilots. I was at HPN in 1984, flying corporate and the chief pilots were panicking, stealing from other departments after years of “will you fly for me just for the experience”. 1999 looked darn near as “unprecedented”; loads of hiring, declining military pilot population due to post-Cold War drawdown, peace everywhere, exploding contracts, Vietnam generation on the cusp of retiring.
As Harold Macmillan said on what effects politics, “Events, my dear boy, events”.
GF
As Harold Macmillan said on what effects politics, “Events, my dear boy, events”.
GF
So until they pay in line with what it cost to enter the field the pipeline will remain dry. Even when they open the spigot it will take many years for the pipeline to fill and the experience levels to come back. Not to mention there is a lack of instructors to even fill the pipe. Which is just one more issue.
When the money flows in the void will be filled I have no doubt. That takes time and the captains in the biz jet side will have vanished. You can already see it happening.
10-24-2018, 06:30 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
The military isn’t short of pilots, they’re short of experienced, especially fighter pilots. There was a shortage in the military every time there was a boom in civilian hiring—Vietnam had a shortage of fighter pilots so all kinds of backgrounds were fodder for tactical air. Big shortage during the Reagan build up in the mid-80s; overage during the ‘90s drawdown, then another build up after 9/11. In 1998, I was a squadron DO wondering where was I going to get pilots, airlines hiring and guys saying, I’m leaving after probation. That didn’t work out so well. The cycle repeats itself.
Now, I’m still in touch with lots of corporate departments. Just back from the NBAA. Chief pilots are concerned about finding experienced pilots or retaining inexperienced ones long enough to make them experienced and keep them. Stealing guys with more money is a problem and HR doesn’t want to hear “more money, more money” until it’s a mild disaster. So, turnover is an issue. I hired my replacement who came from a well-known NY department; she’s hired several ACMI guys who have good international experience.
Somewhere, I’ll find my old Flying magazines with ads from UA, EA, BN, TWA all offering $3 million careers to anyone who applies.
GF
Now, I’m still in touch with lots of corporate departments. Just back from the NBAA. Chief pilots are concerned about finding experienced pilots or retaining inexperienced ones long enough to make them experienced and keep them. Stealing guys with more money is a problem and HR doesn’t want to hear “more money, more money” until it’s a mild disaster. So, turnover is an issue. I hired my replacement who came from a well-known NY department; she’s hired several ACMI guys who have good international experience.
Somewhere, I’ll find my old Flying magazines with ads from UA, EA, BN, TWA all offering $3 million careers to anyone who applies.
GF
10-25-2018, 01:18 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
The military isn’t short of pilots, they’re short of experienced, especially fighter pilots. There was a shortage in the military every time there was a boom in civilian hiring—Vietnam had a shortage of fighter pilots so all kinds of backgrounds were fodder for tactical air. Big shortage during the Reagan build up in the mid-80s; overage during the ‘90s drawdown, then another build up after 9/11. In 1998, I was a squadron DO wondering where was I going to get pilots, airlines hiring and guys saying, I’m leaving after probation. That didn’t work out so well. The cycle repeats itself.
Now, I’m still in touch with lots of corporate departments. Just back from the NBAA. Chief pilots are concerned about finding experienced pilots or retaining inexperienced ones long enough to make them experienced and keep them. Stealing guys with more money is a problem and HR doesn’t want to hear “more money, more money” until it’s a mild disaster. So, turnover is an issue. I hired my replacement who came from a well-known NY department; she’s hired several ACMI guys who have good international experience.
Somewhere, I’ll find my old Flying magazines with ads from UA, EA, BN, TWA all offering $3 million careers to anyone who applies.
GF
Now, I’m still in touch with lots of corporate departments. Just back from the NBAA. Chief pilots are concerned about finding experienced pilots or retaining inexperienced ones long enough to make them experienced and keep them. Stealing guys with more money is a problem and HR doesn’t want to hear “more money, more money” until it’s a mild disaster. So, turnover is an issue. I hired my replacement who came from a well-known NY department; she’s hired several ACMI guys who have good international experience.
Somewhere, I’ll find my old Flying magazines with ads from UA, EA, BN, TWA all offering $3 million careers to anyone who applies.
GF
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...lets-is-empty/
On the private side I agree. But in my experience it's not an 50k a year HR department person that would approve 200k+ pilot salaries it's a VP, Director of Aviation, or an owner (on the private side). Now they like pawn off the bad news to HR and blame it on them but they have no say on a flight departments budget. Again that's my experience. Funny thing is after it turns into a mild disaster and the loyal folks that actually care have departed it cost them so much more than just money. You and I know that but the people getting bonuses on their bottom line don't or they don't care and just want their bonus.
In my opinion the chief pilots and DO's need to be going to management and saying this is what I need to do my job and staff this place properly. When they say no they should resign from management. No way I would try to run a flight department without the proper tools. You would be beating your head against the wall daily. Why do that? If upper management doesn't want to support you that kinda tells you where you stand. No use in stressing yourself out for people that don't care.
Anyhow it will all sort itself out. People will leave. Money will come. People will come back. Rinse, wash repeat. Just sad to see some really good places suffer and go down the tubes because some people are turning a blind eye.
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