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Old 11-23-2017, 03:03 PM   #1  
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Default Airlines plucking from the corporate ranks

I came across this and it looks like they get it. Maybe some help for the corporate guys. Part 91 flight departments are no longer competing with other Part 91 departments to see how much they can squeeze for the least amount. They are competing with the airlines.


https://www.nbaa.org/news/flight-pla...n-20171113.mp3
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Old 11-23-2017, 04:58 PM   #2  
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While may be true, however the only problem is the companies that are actually worth working for with excellent pay combined with exceptional qol arenít hiring pilots because no one wants to leave them. Also to even be considered for a career with them you really have to know someone there unless you are good at sucking D
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Old 11-23-2017, 06:54 PM   #3  
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While may be true, however the only problem is the companies that are actually worth working for with excellent pay combined with exceptional qol arenít hiring pilots because no one wants to leave them. Also to even be considered for a career with them you really have to know someone there unless you are good at sucking D
You are exactly correct. We've had two pilots leave for the Airlines in 5 years. We've had no other attrition. We haven't had to hire anyone in the last 3 years.
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Old 11-23-2017, 10:54 PM   #4  
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Default 3:55

Good point at 3:55 during the interview. When it comes to small mom n pop operations, most often it's 2 pilots per crewed airplane or a one man show for a single pilot plane. Either always on call, or the only hard days you can have off is when the plane is in MX. Long term, that doesn't work. It's very draining knowing that anytime the phone may ring and it's time to go to work, as well as not being able to schedule time off in advance. One way to significantly improve the corporate qol is to add an extra pilot and create a rotation, though some operators might be resistant to such option
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:40 AM   #5  
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While may be true, however the only problem is the companies that are actually worth working for with excellent pay combined with exceptional qol arenít hiring pilots because no one wants to leave them. Also to even be considered for a career with them you really have to know someone there unless you are good at sucking D

I think you may not be seeing the whole picture.

Say there are 5% of biz jet operators (probably less like 1%) that everybody wants to work for. You know the ones that have 4 or more pilots per plane and pay at the top of their class good mx, etc. Real professional operations. Well this isn't about them. They will be fine.

What this will affect is the other 95% (or more) that don't want to pay well, work people to death, or have them on call 24/7/365.

If those operators want pilots (especially good ones) they will have to seriously change their work schedules and pay scales to mirror that of the airlines. If they don't, rest assured they will be flying with the same group of guys they would have been flying with just the aircraft won't have their companies logo on it, it will say Delta, Southwest, American, etc. while theirs is sitting in the hangar collecting dust.

Imagine this. Instead of a handful of companies in the US you really would like to work for now there will be 500 to choose from that will let you have a life and pay you well.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:18 AM   #6  
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I think you may not be seeing the whole picture.

Say there are 5% of biz jet operators (probably less like 1%) that everybody wants to work for. You know the ones that have 4 or more pilots per plane and pay at the top of their class good mx, etc. Real professional operations. Well this isn't about them. They will be fine.

What this will affect is the other 95% (or more) that don't want to pay well, work people to death, or have them on call 24/7/365.

If those operators want pilots (especially good ones) they will have to seriously change their work schedules and pay scales to mirror that of the airlines. If they don't, rest assured they will be flying with the same group of guys they would have been flying with just the aircraft won't have their companies logo on it, it will say Delta, Southwest, American, etc. while theirs is sitting in the hangar collecting dust.

Imagine this. Instead of a handful of companies in the US you really would like to work for now there will be 500 to choose from that will let you have a life and pay you well.
Except that you forget that many of these outfits cannot justify the extra expense so they will simply eliminate themselves out of the market since it will cost them too much to hire and support pilots.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:24 AM   #7  
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Except that you forget that many of these outfits cannot justify the extra expense so they will simply eliminate themselves out of the market since it will cost them too much to hire and support pilots.
Yea some 1970's Lear Jets will get retired finally and many of those guys who were just "keeping up with the Jones" will disappear. And good riddance. They need to be on the airlines anyway. Most of them never had full operating crews anyway and are the operations that have one guy whose job ad reads like this

Pilot wantedLear 35 or Hawker 700 or Falcon 10 or whatever old tub you can think of
Must be typed and current. Must have 5,000TT, 2,000 in type, 1,000PIC in type. Must have a masters degree and been a fighter pilot. Being a Blue Angel is a plus.

Looking for a good guy who can manage our operation out of KXXX airport. We are a great company to work for. Responsibilities include hiring contract FO's to fly with you. Flying the airplane, booking hotels for flight crew and owner and transportation coordinator. Sweeping and maintaining the hanger. Washing and polishing the brightwork on the plane, and the owners cars if you don't fly that week. Oh yea and his pool boy just quit so maintaining owners pool at his house. You may be needed in the office to do some mundane choirs. You will also be responsible for managing the maintenance on the aircraft and the lawnmowers. Oops I almost forgot, cutting the grass at the hangar and landscaping at the owners house (poolboy was the also the landscaper). We will need you to be at the office every morning at 0700 with donuts and to drop off the bosses dry cleaning when not on the road. When on the road we will need you to leave you hotel ($50 a day is our budget for yours) to go to the bosses Four Seasons by 0630 as you are also the chauffeur while on the road. Being a good cook is a plus.

Pay starts at 50k (tops out at 52k)
Per diem is $14 a day
no health
no dental
no 401k
vacation 2 weeks annually but must be used retroactively on Sundays when you were already at home previously.

So yea those guys/\/\/\/\/\ will go away and good. Who wants to do that kind of crap.

But I challenge you with this.

When fuel prices were through the roof did rich guys stop flying their private aircraft? Nope. Maybe the guys above did but not the rich guys and companies. And they won't either when pilot cost goes up.
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Old 11-24-2017, 02:17 PM   #8  
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Just had this sent to me.

https://www.apiaviation.com/bizav-le....IeHTYNrN.dpbs
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:30 PM   #9  
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Just as the marginal airlines experience, the 135 and corporate operators will experienceóno pilots at a price their customer base is willing to pay for. The top-flight shops will offer competitive T&Cs, attract good people and retain them. The others will be priced out.

A chief pilot at an operator I know wanted to move on. The owner liked him and offered what was needed, including a commuting package (wife wanted to move back to her home). If your valuable and the owner has the money, an agreement can always be made.

If youíre a marginal charter operator or regional carrier, expect to be a training shop for low experience pilots.

GF
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Old 11-25-2017, 05:25 PM   #10  
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A chief pilot at an operator I know wanted to move on. The owner liked him and offered what was needed, including a commuting package (wife wanted to move back to her home). If your valuable and the owner has the money, an agreement can always be made.

GF
Agreed. It's almost always less expensive to do whatever it takes to retain a highly qualified individual than it is to recruit a new person. It's just good business sense.
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