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Corporate to 121

Old 05-02-2018, 02:55 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by cobalt650 View Post
220K at what appears to be a solid corporate job or 15 years at a legacy, which also appear to be solid. Both could change, but if both stay in the game, which one wins?
Probably corporate. First ten yrs the total earnings are similar. First five is maybe a $500K loss at the airline, parity recoups to net break even by year ten, last five years $100,000 deficit per year.
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:00 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by cobalt650 View Post
220K at what appears to be a solid corporate job or 15 years at a legacy, which also appear to be solid. Both could change, but if both stay in the game, which one wins?
Switching entails some risk, training on a new plane, and probation year.

For me it would come down to the nature of the corporate job: How susceptible to the economy is it (might be more, less, or about the same as airlines) and how likely to be the victim of a "Black Swan" event?

The airline is pretty predictable... after reaching 80% global seniority you should be furlough proof (90% would likely be safe enough, given the known retirements). Retirements are known, so you can calculate how long it would take to move up how far (assuming no growth, growth would be a bonus).
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Old 05-02-2018, 04:52 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Sliceback View Post
Probably corporate. First ten yrs the total earnings are similar. First five is maybe a $500K loss at the airline, parity recoups to net break even by year ten, last five years $100,000 deficit per year.
You sure about that? I’m just over 2 years at a legacy and I’m on track to be fairly close 220k the previous poster stated. I exceeded my corporate salary year 2, and I was NBAA top 25% flying a G450 as a captain when I left in 2015.

To those wondering about making the switch, it was a great decision for me. My family and I are much happier with the QOL change. I am not a commuter.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:02 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by LibertyPilot View Post
You sure about that? I’m just over 2 years at a legacy and I’m on track to be fairly close 220k the previous poster stated. I exceeded my corporate salary year 2, and I was NBAA top 25% flying a G450 as a captain when I left in 2015.

To those wondering about making the switch, it was a great decision for me. My family and I are much happier with the QOL change. I am not a commuter.
Good copy on the QOL. My. Corporate concern is that it will not last. Too tough to start the Legacy route later on. 2nd year pay at the legacy: 150K-ish, + 16% B fund, plus 5-10% bonus, so 182-191K?
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:03 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by cobalt650 View Post
Good copy on the QOL. My. Corporate concern is that it will not last. Too tough to start the Legacy route later on. 2nd year pay at the legacy: 150K-ish, + 16% B fund, plus 5-10% bonus, so 182-191K?
If you compare a list of 100 (@ 65 yrs old) legacy airline pilots to 100 (@ 65 years old) corporate pilots who have held at least one corporate dream job, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that a much higher percentage of the airline pilots have a 25+ year career at one company. Definitely more stability at the airlines on average. Greater pay and retirement on average, and better schedule on average.

Those pay numbers are pretty close.
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:26 PM
  #36  
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Hello all.

I too am trying to figure out if a move to 121 is right for me and would appreciate some advice.

I am 43 and have a great corporate gig. The problem is that I don't know if it will last until retirement. We are in a declining industry, but the flight department has been around for a long time.

I have a finance background, so I have been trying to model some of the financial aspects of a move. I know I would take a big pay cut in the first year, but I don't really know how to model expectations for future earnings at the airlines. While the pay scales are a known, upgrade times/expectations are important to the model. I live in the mid-atlantic, and I am thinking AA would be the best bet for quickest upgrade times due to impending retirements. What would you guys think would be realistic in terms of seat/equipment for a hypothetical new hire that wanted to strike a reasonable balance between QOL and compensation?

I would like to minimize commuting...I am close enough to drive to the DC area (within 2 hours). Would it be reasonable to expect narrow body FO for the first 7 years, then widebody FO (78,777,330 until year 12, then narrow body CA years 13-17, followed by widebody captain (78,777,330) for years 18-22?

I currently make ~175K in salary and bonus with another ~20% in retirement comp. I don't fly much (~200 hours block) and drive to work. All-in-all, I am very happy with my job but worried about security and wondering if it makes sense to try and make a move now versus when I am older than I already am. The first year would be rough, but any thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:31 PM
  #37  
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Sorry...one follow up question. How many hours should I assume when I am calculating monthly pay? I am using the straight hourly rate times 80 right now. Since I have retirement compensation comparable to the airlines, I am considering that a push. I am also not factoring in profit sharing on the 121 side...should I? Thank you.
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:27 PM
  #38  
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Reserve is 73 or 76 hrs per month. Long call (73) or short call (76 hrs)(AA).

As a quick rule of thumb I use 90% (.9) x hourly rate for a reserve income. $100 hr? $90K per year.

Line holder is at least 1000-1100 hrs of pay per year. $100 hr = $100-110K.

If you're a line holder and hustling you can make 1200+ pay hours per year. So $100/hr = $120. And you can generate even more pay hours. The highest I've heard is in the 1350-1400 hr range.

Mid-Atlantic? South of DCA is a different ball game than MD/DE. PHL is a junior wide body base and DCA is only narrow body. W/b pay is up to 22% more than narrow pay. So being a G4 (330/777/787) guy on rsv is worth approx 89 hrs of G2 (320/737) pilot.

Advancement? Typically we give the junior base data. If you live in a more senior base (DFW/LAX, etc) the advancements occur later. Assuming junior base (PHL will be near the junior base data) it's approx. a 6 year upgrade if you were hired right now. You'd end up with 6 years on the G4 (330/777/787) if you bid it as soon as you can hold it. So if you chase seats you'd have approx. 5 years as a 320/737 FO(1.5 yrs rsv), a year as a w/b FO, 9 yrs as a 320/737 CA(2 yrs rsv??), and then 6 yrs on the 330/777/787. <(that's junior base projections which should include PHL +/-). I'd estimate 3 yrs rsv and 3 yrs as a G4 line holding CA. You'd retire around #1600 if you were hired today.

Here's the reality - it's really hard to get hired at AA as an OTS civilian. That was approx. 10% of last year's hiring.

United in IAD/DCA is another good option.

Profit sharing? Meh. AA is currently 2-3%. UA is ??. DL is 10-20%. All subject to change but the overall compensation trend is up. But that trend of supply vs demand should also help at your current job.
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:39 PM
  #39  
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Thanks a lot for the reply, Sliceback. Can you tell me what it means to be an OTS civilian?
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Old 05-28-2018, 04:25 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Feet Wet View Post
Thanks a lot for the reply, Sliceback. Can you tell me what it means to be an OTS civilian?
Off The Street.
Corporate.
Not military or airline.
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