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Duty/Flight time guidance

Old 11-16-2018, 04:01 PM
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While perusing my local airport on Flight Aware the other day I saw a flight to GYE and since I used to enjoy that layover I investigated who was going there. Turns out it was a Sovereign and it left left origin at around 3:30 local time and arrived at destination with three enroute stops on the way at about noon the next day their origin time. GYE was just one of the stops.How would a Part 91 outfit staff that? 2 young bucks with controlled napping? 3 pilots but would the relief be snoring in the cabin with the pax?
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Old 11-16-2018, 05:36 PM
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Why not mind your own business?

Originally Posted by 1wife2airlines View Post
While perusing my local airport on Flight Aware the other day I saw a flight to GYE and since I used to enjoy that layover I investigated who was going there. Turns out it was a Sovereign and it left left origin at around 3:30 local time and arrived at destination with three enroute stops on the way at about noon the next day their origin time. GYE was just one of the stops.How would a Part 91 outfit staff that? 2 young bucks with controlled napping? 3 pilots but would the relief be snoring in the cabin with the pax?
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Old 11-16-2018, 06:03 PM
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That’s not a question that’s a fishing expedition.
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Old 11-16-2018, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
That’s not a question that’s a fishing expedition.
What would I be fishing for? The details would easily gleaned but I'm just interested in how an outfit would staff this. Back in my young buck days in the military this would be a mission hack. I don't even know if the same crew flew all 4 legs. But if your outfit wanted to get from a to b over the same length of time would it use 3 guys or 2 guys. If it's 2 guys do you schedule each other a nap? If it's 3 does the relief guy get to snooze in the cabin with pax? I don't even know if there were pax.
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:09 PM
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We’d schedule a crew change enroute, pre-position a crew via commercial air to meet 12-hours of pre-departure crew rest. But a lot would not, there’s no crew rest in a Sovereign, so augmentation is non-starter.

I’ve done crew changes darn everywhere in the globe, ANC is popular for Asian legs, Panama would work here.


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Old 11-18-2018, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 1wife2airlines View Post
While perusing my local airport on Flight Aware the other day I saw a flight to GYE and since I used to enjoy that layover I investigated who was going there. Turns out it was a Sovereign and it left left origin at around 3:30 local time and arrived at destination with three enroute stops on the way at about noon the next day their origin time. GYE was just one of the stops.How would a Part 91 outfit staff that? 2 young bucks with controlled napping? 3 pilots but would the relief be snoring in the cabin with the pax?
That's a typical day for a lot of freight operators; supplemental carriers run up to 18 hours with a single crew, 26 hours by adding a crew member, 30 hours with a double crew...and do this regularly.

A Part 91 crew has no regulatory duty or rest or flight time limitation.

How do you know that no crew change occurred at any of the stops?
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Old 11-18-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
That's a typical day for a lot of freight operators; supplemental carriers run up to 18 hours with a single crew, 26 hours by adding a crew member, 30 hours with a double crew...and do this regularly.

A Part 91 crew has no regulatory duty or rest or flight time limitation.

How do you know that no crew change occurred at any of the stops?
I already said I don't know if the same crew flew all legs. But as you say there are no limitations. If the same crew did would they schedule cockpit naps? suggests that there would be no augmentation but who knows if the pax wouldn't mind an extra body in the cabin.
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Old 11-18-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 1wife2airlines View Post
I already said I don't know if the same crew flew all legs. But as you say there are no limitations. If the same crew did would they schedule cockpit naps? suggests that there would be no augmentation but who knows if the pax wouldn't mind an extra body in the cabin.
Just an innocent question, have you flown in a bizjet? We would augment a crew ONLY on a empty leg. There’s not enough room to get any useful rest with pax in a Sovereign. Even in a Global or a Gulfstream, the crew rest area is next to the galley, so noise is an problem. The Gulfstream 550 has a origami like fold up forward lav which is another distraction. Frankly, having done it, a 11-hour bizjet is perfect, one duty period, go to bed in a hotel. If the pax want to continue on—fine have a fresh crew in place.

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Old 11-18-2018, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
Just an innocent question, have you flown in a bizjet? We would augment a crew ONLY on a empty leg. There’s not enough room to get any useful rest with pax in a Sovereign. Even in a Global or a Gulfstream, the crew rest area is next to the galley, so noise is an problem. The Gulfstream 550 has a origami like fold up forward lav which is another distraction. Frankly, having done it, a 11-hour bizjet is perfect, one duty period, go to bed in a hotel. If the pax want to continue on—fine have a fresh crew in place.

GF
Never have flown in a bizjet, thus my wonder about how it would be done. My conclusion so far is that pax found a 20 hour trip with three short refuel stops better than commercial which probably would be 30 hours and 1 to 3 connections. Where would your outfit crew change if the route was VNY-LRD-GYE-MDZ-BRC? I'm thinking LRD would be the most economical even thought it's still a long way down after that.
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Old 11-18-2018, 06:36 PM
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Joking, but if we had to connect VNY and MDZ and BRC in one duty day, we wouldn’t use a Sovereign, but a Global. Seriously, I’m guessing LRD and GYE are fuel stops and pax requirements because I would have dropped the LRD and GYE, if the Sovereign can make 2,600 nm and just stop at PTY. So the crew change would be in GYE. That’s the only reasonable way to break up the duty periods. It’s 13+ in a Sovereign, but 11-ish in a Global or Gulfstream. With pre-flight and pax and customs, just doable in a 14-hour duty.

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