Duty/Flight time guidance
#1
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Joined APC: Jan 2014
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Duty/Flight time guidance
While perusing my local airport on Flight Aware the other day I saw a flight to GYE and since I used to enjoy that layover I investigated who was going there. Turns out it was a Sovereign and it left left origin at around 3:30 local time and arrived at destination with three enroute stops on the way at about noon the next day their origin time. GYE was just one of the stops.How would a Part 91 outfit staff that? 2 young bucks with controlled napping? 3 pilots but would the relief be snoring in the cabin with the pax?
#2
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 53
Why not mind your own business?
While perusing my local airport on Flight Aware the other day I saw a flight to GYE and since I used to enjoy that layover I investigated who was going there. Turns out it was a Sovereign and it left left origin at around 3:30 local time and arrived at destination with three enroute stops on the way at about noon the next day their origin time. GYE was just one of the stops.How would a Part 91 outfit staff that? 2 young bucks with controlled napping? 3 pilots but would the relief be snoring in the cabin with the pax?
#4
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What would I be fishing for? The details would easily gleaned but I'm just interested in how an outfit would staff this. Back in my young buck days in the military this would be a mission hack. I don't even know if the same crew flew all 4 legs. But if your outfit wanted to get from a to b over the same length of time would it use 3 guys or 2 guys. If it's 2 guys do you schedule each other a nap? If it's 3 does the relief guy get to snooze in the cabin with pax? I don't even know if there were pax.
#5
We’d schedule a crew change enroute, pre-position a crew via commercial air to meet 12-hours of pre-departure crew rest. But a lot would not, there’s no crew rest in a Sovereign, so augmentation is non-starter.
I’ve done crew changes darn everywhere in the globe, ANC is popular for Asian legs, Panama would work here.
GF
I’ve done crew changes darn everywhere in the globe, ANC is popular for Asian legs, Panama would work here.
GF
#6
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Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,926
While perusing my local airport on Flight Aware the other day I saw a flight to GYE and since I used to enjoy that layover I investigated who was going there. Turns out it was a Sovereign and it left left origin at around 3:30 local time and arrived at destination with three enroute stops on the way at about noon the next day their origin time. GYE was just one of the stops.How would a Part 91 outfit staff that? 2 young bucks with controlled napping? 3 pilots but would the relief be snoring in the cabin with the pax?
A Part 91 crew has no regulatory duty or rest or flight time limitation.
How do you know that no crew change occurred at any of the stops?
#7
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Posts: 96
That's a typical day for a lot of freight operators; supplemental carriers run up to 18 hours with a single crew, 26 hours by adding a crew member, 30 hours with a double crew...and do this regularly.
A Part 91 crew has no regulatory duty or rest or flight time limitation.
How do you know that no crew change occurred at any of the stops?
A Part 91 crew has no regulatory duty or rest or flight time limitation.
How do you know that no crew change occurred at any of the stops?
#8
I already said I don't know if the same crew flew all legs. But as you say there are no limitations. If the same crew did would they schedule cockpit naps? suggests that there would be no augmentation but who knows if the pax wouldn't mind an extra body in the cabin.
GF
#9
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Just an innocent question, have you flown in a bizjet? We would augment a crew ONLY on a empty leg. There’s not enough room to get any useful rest with pax in a Sovereign. Even in a Global or a Gulfstream, the crew rest area is next to the galley, so noise is an problem. The Gulfstream 550 has a origami like fold up forward lav which is another distraction. Frankly, having done it, a 11-hour bizjet is perfect, one duty period, go to bed in a hotel. If the pax want to continue on—fine have a fresh crew in place.
GF
GF
#10
Joking, but if we had to connect VNY and MDZ and BRC in one duty day, we wouldn’t use a Sovereign, but a Global. Seriously, I’m guessing LRD and GYE are fuel stops and pax requirements because I would have dropped the LRD and GYE, if the Sovereign can make 2,600 nm and just stop at PTY. So the crew change would be in GYE. That’s the only reasonable way to break up the duty periods. It’s 13+ in a Sovereign, but 11-ish in a Global or Gulfstream. With pre-flight and pax and customs, just doable in a 14-hour duty.
GF
GF
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