galaxy flyer

They can also save you the management fees in savings every trip. Yes, in theory, you can it alone IF you have the right Director with the right experience. They’re hard to come by these days.


GF

RI830

Find a lightly used Legacy 600. Drastically lower price than the Legacy 450/500 and much larger cabin. Should be plenty on the used market for less than 10M

Dhood84

We don’t have the hangar space for a 600. It would be nice as I have the type already, but never gonna happen on that bird.

DH

gwilliams

Hello,

East Coast Flight Services could provide and give advice on your
aircraft needs or provide management services.

eastcoastflight.com
phone: 800-554-0550

billsaw

You are about to have a big learning curve. Not trying to scare you. But there isn't any such thing as dipping your toes in the water and going full on international ops.

Best open the wallet and call EJM or someone similar that is operating a lot of jets internationally. They are all gonna clean you out (money wise) but that is the price your gonna pay for an education.

If you try to go cheap and don't get extremely lucky and find the right guy it will cost way more in the end. And you will be extremely lucky to find the right guy.

Here is the best advice you will get on any forum. At this point you need to be paying someone for advice that knows the score that isn't looking for a job. Not asking around here.

Why you ask? You will get some really good advice here. You will also get some really bad advice here. How do you know what's what?

Hawkerdriver1

The acquisition cost of a Challenger 605 vs Challenger 300 is about the same but the 605 costs about $200.00 more per hour to operate.

The 605 can fly about 2 hours more than a 300 too. On longer trips, less landings = less risk exposure. Determine your mission requirements.

Challenger 300 cost is $4.00 per nautical mile
A Falcon 2000 is $5.35 per nautical mile FWIW....

Castle Bravo

"If you think it's expensive to hire Professionals, wait until you hire an amateur..."

Just the regulatory compliance alone is worth the cost of outsourcing.

GeeWizDriver

In my opinion, this is an accurate statement.

My advice would be to use an established, well known management company to, pardon the pun, get you off the ground. After a year or two, if you have been lucky enough to find a great pilot with the right qualifications and experience to take your operation in-house, you can always do that. Trying it in-house straight away could get really expensive, really fast.

As far as equipment, I would recommend buying a little bit more than you THINK you need to get started. Challenger 300/350 is a good option. Falcon 2000 is a great airplane but needs TLC from a good mechanic. The break rate on the 2000 at NetJets has been stupid high.

When you are ready for an international airplane, I would absolutely look for a classic GV. Spend a million or three on a thorough inspection, cockpit upgrades, re-ragged interior, and fresh paint and you’ll be able to go virtually anywhere in the world (including full Stage IV noise compliance) one stop or non-stop at .85 Mach for a reasonable number, probably south of $18 million. Gulfstreams are expensive but they are WORTH IT.

forgot to bid

Agree. Call EJM. I was a chief pilot for a legacy 600 there, I thought they were good. We did side charters but at 300-400 hours per year I would not do that.

Put it this way, they have a ton of connections because of net jets. We used to get the net jets fuel rate at FBOs. Talking to the sales guy had me convinced that if one wanted a jet, wanted it managed and wanted it to do charter it was the best option. They could get a jet rotating off net jets, fix it up, staff it and charter it out in the blink of an eye. They didn’t seem like they were trying to cheat the owners. Even when I got mad, and I got mad, I didn’t feel they were cheating.

I think a jet that’s in the netjets family type would be manage very well from budgeting, acquisition, staffing, training, maintenance, etc.

Frozen Ronin

Kind of a cold thread, but had to throw out an idea I’ve seen work on multiple occasions; managed launch transitioning to in house team.

EJM won’t likely be interested, but several managing companies understand that if they don’t offer you a ‘buy out’ price, you’ll likely to hire folks from under them, anyhow. After a fixed contract length, the opportunity for you to buy the pilot/mx/manager is available. The price covers their cost of retraining and hiring a replacement for them, but gives you the incredible opportunity hire what you know works. If you offer the commensurate pay and QOL, and those prospects enjoy what they’re doing, it’s a cinch. If not, you have some work to do.

You now have some experience watching your flight department run for a year or two, have the in house experience you can trust, and after absorbing the buy out price, your department budget will trim back. You’ve basically bought your way through an expensive and intricate learning curve.