Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Corporate
Corporate opportunity Advice >

Corporate opportunity Advice

Notices
Corporate Corporate operators

Corporate opportunity Advice

Old 06-19-2019, 01:18 PM
  #1  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 75
Default Corporate opportunity Advice

I've got 900 hours (GA flying) and will be finishing up my ratings this fall, should be around 1000 hours. I had been planning on building TT/instrument experience up in Alaska to get me to the Regionals.

Don't know how i did it, but a networking type opportunity might have just dropped in my lap flying for a high net worth family. They have a Lear and a Falcon 900. I have a close friend who's father has flown for the family for 30+ years with retire with them for sure. By all accounts its a good gig. They traditionally would want an ATP in the right seat, but times "are a changing" according to the source. Really struggling to find a FO that can stay and can also fit the culture.

My first reaction was "insurance?!?", but i'm told that it's not a barrier for the right candidate. Main thing I wanted to ask you guys is, with a 135 (or part 91)...what's reasonable to expect for training duration? Flying in an operation like that seems like it would be a huge leap for me and i don't want to be set up for failure. I know the regionals put you through school for at least two months...what would something like this need to be realistically?

Thanks in advance
LowerLoon185 is offline  
Old 06-19-2019, 02:09 PM
  #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,269
Default

First of all...damn! Congrats on this opportunity.

I teach at FSI on one of the Lear models. The course is 3 weeks. I don’t know what the Falcon 900 duration is.

If you’re flying strictly 91, you attend a recurrent every year, and that’s 4 days. If you’re 135, you have training every 6 months Same 4 days.

The people who come through that fly for the rich, private owners, generally love it. They’re compensated well, have good schedules, you’re at your home base, you get all expenses paid....you could seriously turn this into a solid long term gig, as long as the family doesn’t decide to sell the planes at some point. You also get a couple nice type ratings out of it.

Be cool with them and get paid fairly, and be clear on the schedule requirements they have.

As far as the actual training...if you’re coming from the Cessna 172 world, the fast jets can be a system shock, but I’ve had people make it through with no issues, and I’ve had people struggle. If you’re just getting an SIC type rating, the checkride is much easier.

I will say that, as far as FSI is concerned, we REALLY want you to pass, you get consistent training, and we won’t send you to check unless we have high confidence you’re going to pass. We won’t send someone forward just to watch them fail.

Good luck!
JTwift is offline  
Old 06-19-2019, 04:19 PM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
galaxy flyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,168
Default

It depends on what you want for a career path. Ask how much they fly, both hours per month/year AND days away, expenses. I know guys flying 8-10 days max per month and the plane only flies 175 hours per year (large cabin) paying 275k. Great job, but you’re not building time IF you want an airline path. Loads of great and not so great corporates, you have to know how to interview them as to what the operation is like.

Are the planes operated for charter? If so, lots of time away, lots of hours, likely little or no more money. Is it operated under a management contract or in-house department?

GF
galaxy flyer is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 05:08 AM
  #4  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 75
Default

Originally Posted by JTwift View Post
First of all...damn! Congrats on this opportunity.

I teach at FSI on one of the Lear models. The course is 3 weeks. I don’t know what the Falcon 900 duration is.

If you’re flying strictly 91, you attend a recurrent every year, and that’s 4 days. If you’re 135, you have training every 6 months Same 4 days.

The people who come through that fly for the rich, private owners, generally love it. They’re compensated well, have good schedules, you’re at your home base, you get all expenses paid....you could seriously turn this into a solid long term gig, as long as the family doesn’t decide to sell the planes at some point. You also get a couple nice type ratings out of it.

Be cool with them and get paid fairly, and be clear on the schedule requirements they have.

As far as the actual training...if you’re coming from the Cessna 172 world, the fast jets can be a system shock, but I’ve had people make it through with no issues, and I’ve had people struggle. If you’re just getting an SIC type rating, the checkride is much easier.

I will say that, as far as FSI is concerned, we REALLY want you to pass, you get consistent training, and we won’t send you to check unless we have high confidence you’re going to pass. We won’t send someone forward just to watch them fail.

Good luck!
Thank you so much for the heads up on FSI, exactly what i was looking to know. I'm in the very early stages of this, and i'll find out more next month. I'm going to fly out to meet the Chief Pilot. I got a few more details last night, they have 4 full time guys and at least two have been with the family for 25 plus years. This would be a SIC job at first on the Lear 60. Those are mostly local (east coast) flights for the family businesses/management. The 900 is primarily for just family and it goes on a lot of international trips.
LowerLoon185 is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 05:15 AM
  #5  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 75
Default

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
It depends on what you want for a career path. Ask how much they fly, both hours per month/year AND days away, expenses. I know guys flying 8-10 days max per month and the plane only flies 175 hours per year (large cabin) paying 275k. Great job, but you’re not building time IF you want an airline path. Loads of great and not so great corporates, you have to know how to interview them as to what the operation is like.

Are the planes operated for charter? If so, lots of time away, lots of hours, likely little or no more money. Is it operated under a management contract or in-house department?

GF
Thanks for the response, all great questions and i'll be nailing those down next month hopefully. From what i can tell it's a 200-300 hour a year type of deal. I don't know if they are all like this, but my contact is salaried/401k/PS/full benefits similar to how the management team is. Don't know the numbers yet obviously. I know the Chief Pilot also is in charge of scheduling maintenance, storage, etc and has an assistant for all of the documentation. I'm under the impression that at least some of the flying is done under 135 because he mentioned "IFR 135 minimums" for PIC. I may have that wrong though.

All of that aside, and it still may be a good gig, but i am worried about the hours from a career progression standpoint. I would like to set myself up for a move eventually to a LCC/FO position and this sounds like it would take a long time to get significant turbine PIC.
LowerLoon185 is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:46 PM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 945
Default

Originally Posted by LowerLoon185 View Post

All of that aside, and it still may be a good gig, but i am worried about the hours from a career progression standpoint. I would like to set myself up for a move eventually to a LCC/FO position and this sounds like it would take a long time to get significant turbine PIC.
How old are the others in the dept? If they’re “senior” they may be retiring soon. If they’re youngish then once they have the required PIC hours they’ll be off to the airlines. You may be PIC before you know it. Either way, I’d bring it up in your discussions to tell them you hope to be in their plans as a PIC at some point, and when do they think that might happen? Just general career progression kind of stuff.
Mink is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 01:06 PM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
2StgTurbine's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,241
Default

Originally Posted by Mink View Post
tell them you hope to be in their plans as a PIC at some point, and when do they think that might happen?
I don't see a point in that. At 300 hours a year, it will take the OP 5 years before they have have enough time to realistically upgrade (2,500 hours).

A lot can happen in 5 years. Most pilots are promised lots of things that never come true when they start a job. 5 years is a big career commitment for a promise.

And if I'm the owner, I would be a little shocked that a 900 hour piston pilot is asking me when they could be captain in a Lear. They are already taking a risk/helping out the OP by having them sit in the right seat of a Lear.
2StgTurbine is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:03 PM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Airplanes
Posts: 1,375
Default

90%+ of every corporate job that I've ever know of disappeared when either the patriarch died, the company was thinning for a M&A, or the economy took a dive. I'd put more faith in truck stop sushi than any 91 gig. And I did it for over a decade and not a single one of them still exist. Maybe you found the golden ticket but I'd do some serious research. If you go sit in a 91 gig with no time flying minimum hours you're going to miss the greatest airline hiring boom since 1903. You'd better be damn sure this gig will last your until age 65 with a gamble like that.
Macjet is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:22 PM
  #9  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 75
Default

Originally Posted by Mink View Post
How old are the others in the dept? If they’re “senior” they may be retiring soon. If they’re youngish then once they have the required PIC hours they’ll be off to the airlines.
They are nearing retirement. Chief Pilot and #2 are both in their 60's...my contact says they want more time off and looking to "wind down." One has been with the family 30+ and the other has been 25+.
LowerLoon185 is offline  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:31 PM
  #10  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 75
Default

Originally Posted by Macjet View Post
90%+ of every corporate job that I've ever know of disappeared when either the patriarch died, the company was thinning for a M&A, or the economy took a dive. I'd put more faith in truck stop sushi than any 91 gig. And I did it for over a decade and not a single one of them still exist.
Absolutely. The only exposure i have to corporate aviation is actually flying on them in my first job out of school. I got to know the pilots a little there and the only constant was change. The flying (and planes) wax and wane with the economy, individual investment performance, and whims of family members.

To be honest...in making my decision to start trying to fly for a living i really only considered regionals due to the opportunity to build great hours and have good training. A "good" corporate job seems so hard to attain, even though the type of flying/equipment seems attractive. Like i said, this kind of came out of the blue and really took me off guard. I really appreciate the comments and watch outs. I have close friends mentoring me on the path to eventually get to a Major (where they work), but i'm not one to not examine each opportunity hard. This also potentially bridges a gap for me in regards to the 1000 hour to 1500 hurdles.
LowerLoon185 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SwiperNoSwiping
Fractional
25
11-07-2018 11:31 AM
FMGEC
Major
47
12-11-2017 09:47 AM
tmick
Corporate
14
08-02-2017 06:03 PM
sargeanb
Corporate
16
06-24-2007 06:02 PM
Boardr1521
Regional
9
02-28-2007 11:53 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices