Training Agreements
 

Just wondered what everyone's idea/experience has been with these. Is the job so bad that they have to legally lock you in so you don't leave without paying, or is it just a way for them to prevent guys from getting free training and jumping ship? Maybe a combination of both... I've been in one before, and still work for the same company.... not the greatest place to work, but I was logging jet PIC within 5 months and had less than 2000 hours, so it was mutually beneficial.

I've had both experiences. At one company I had a training agreement, but it was prorated. They were a good company to work for, they supplied food for us everyday, their airplanes were well maintained, they just had a high turn over rate because people would use them as a stepping stone company to get into jets.

Another company I worked for had a training agreement for each airplane they require you to fly. It was a long training agreement too, well over a year...and they didn't prorate it at all. They also required you to sign another, even more expensive non-prorated training agreement when you upgrade to captain. They were not a good company.

They didn't maintain their airplanes properly, they tried to force you to fly in dangerous conditions, they fudged the numbers on their flight plans so it always showed you having more fuel than you actually do. (it's amazing how they always showed 3 hours and 45 minute duration on the flight plan when the airplane can only fly for 2 hours and 30 minutes with full fuel).

I think aviation is the only career where there are so many dirt bag companies who don't want to pay for job training? There are thousands of companies outside of aviation who give their employees company cars, insurance, cell phones, laptop computers, etc; all so their valued employees can do their jobs comfortably and efficiently.
When it comes to aviation, there are an abundance of companies who don't want to pay for your FAA required job training. They don't want to pay for type ratings, they want ridiculous training contracts. It absolutely amazes me how crappy so many companies are in aviation.

I think everybody should go to one job interview that you don't really want and then decline the job when it's offered and be sure to tell them why...pay, contract, benefits, schedule, etc. Maybe if enough pilots did this, then they would realize they need to change things.

In this job environment you shouldnt have to pay for any training. If they are a professional outfit they will have folks want to stay around on their own. When their training contracts are so extreme its kind of like locking yourself in prison. Never go with one that isn't prorated.

Everyone has to start somewhere, the commuters are hiring at alarming rates. There are no contracts there.

What kind of equipment are you looking at a training contract for?

I have an interview with Segrave Aviation scheduled and found out that they have a 23k training agreement, but not sure if it is prorated. I hate to get locked into something for a year when I'm about 4-5 months from reaching DAL and CAL mins. I also haven't seen much posted here about the company and hate to get locked into somewhere that puts you up in the econo lodge when RON.

A 23k training contract. What aircraft is that for?

Hawker 1000

Sounds about right for a full-service Flight Safety training contract.

I don't like the idea of training contracts, but I have also seen the other side. People beg for a job, get trained or even typed, then bail for a "better" job. This gets expensive for 91 and 135 ops. It puts the screws to other pilots who are then forced with training contracts. Sometimes, things happen and you have to leave, but simply using somebody in the 135 and especially in the 91 world can really burn bridges. I would always try to give somebody 11 or 12 months if they send me to school.

Just because a company has a training agreement doesn't automatically mean that they are a bad employer, but you definitely need to evaluate all of the variables and give careful consideration to the conditions of the contract.

FWIW, I signed a contract with my current employer and they've been the best company that I've flown for professionally in terms of treatment, pay, and QOL.

Can you guys elaborate on the training contract thing for me. From what I understand they pay $XX for your training and if you leave before XX months then you owe them all of that money back..is that correct? Also for a prorated contract is that the same with the exception that the longer you are there say 11 out of the 12 months required you owe them a percentage of the training cost. Am I close on any of this? Some info would be great.

The reason I ask is that I am looking into a job flying a HS-125 700 and they have a two year contract and if given a call and the chance to interview I would like to be a little more prepared.

I would have no plans of leaving the job but it would be nice to know a little bit more about it, it is a fairly large commitment for a company that you may know very little about

My contract was a two year, 23,350 training contract. The training was a full PIC ride and type rating at FSI Wichita. It was prorated at 12 month interval. (Full reimbursement if I quit during the first year, 1/3rd if I left the 2nd).

There were exclusions for disability, loss of medical and involuntarily terminated (fired/laidoff).

i have a 3 year tranning contract that is prorated if i leave before the 3 year i pay the balance plus 8 percent so each month i can remove a set amount of my contract total . example 16000 by 3 year is 5333 a year if i leave at 2 year marke i must pay 5333plus 8 per

Yikes! I had heartburn over the 2 years period. Don't know that I'd sign a 3 year agreement, unless it was for a super expensive type (like the G-550). Also think that the 8 percent is a bit of a downer... 8% of the remaining balance or the initial total?

Out of curiousity, do you mind sharing how much the original contract was for?

it is 16,000 and 8% of the remaining balance

If they want you to sign, ask for a signing bonus.(equal to the cost of the contract!)

Another good safeguard is to spend e.g. $200 for an employment attorney's time to review the contract and explain to you the ramifications of breaching the contract and the possibilities of the employer making a demand against you. He/She might be able to draft a rider to the original contract that might protect you if the company you go to work for folds or sells the aircraft, etc. If their is not an equitable proration, do not sign it, IMHO. I have heard several war stories of these contracts not being enforceable in court because of material misrepresentation, bankruptcy, etc. Again, $200 with the lawyer will answer all of your questions and prevent possible litigation down the road. Venue would be an important consideration here as well.

I believe that the industry standard for a contract is one year, whether it is for training or a relocation agreement. It is sad that professional pilots need to sign these (dependent on the operator), but I do empathize with the operators who are trying to control their costs and stay within the confines of their operating budgets. Turnover costs represent 50-60% of a candidates salary, to hire and train a replacement pilot.

Keep in mind, that if this is a large management company that you are considering, their actual costs (minus travel expenses) to type you in the _______jet could be considerably less than the dollar amount signed on your contract. Most likely they will be charging you retail cost of a full service contract with one of the large training service providers. Their actual cost for your training can be significantly less due to contracted/volume discounts with the training provider(s).

Good luck on your endeavor. Hopefully, this is a company that will treat and pay you well and reward your loyalty/longevity.

Contracts in general are tough to hash out, but in the end, it's usually for the general financial interest of "said" company to protect their assets. My former employer made one prior to myself showing up because guys would come, get a few hundred hours of twin-time, and bounce. While in a C-310 isn't much over-all cost, it does cost them airplane, salary, and check-airman time to cover all the important stuff.

I signed a 2-year contract at my current employer, mainly because I plan on being here that time-frame anyways, but it was for the TBM-850 school. After the first year it pro-rates very aggressively as you can suspect. If there's disagreement, maybe you can draft an individual contract to suit both you and your employers demands also. Not sure if they'd go for that, but worth a shot.