Eclipse Jet Pilot pay??

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12-25-2007 | 11:21 PM

#11

GauleyPilot

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From: BE-20, RA390

I know a guy who briefly flew an Eclipse.

The idiot-proof avionics didn't interface with the gee-whiz panel. Radar there, but couldn't use it. Nav. was limited to VOR only because of the problem. The airplane was good for day VFR only.

He flies a Lear now.

12-26-2007 | 07:37 AM

#12

stinsonjr

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jdsavage

That's the same thing they said about the Cirrus, didn't stop people from nose diving them into the ground or flying into apartments. Doctor killers. They're all designed for people with great big check books and ity-bity log books.

This reminds me of a similiar debate from another thread a long time ago. The premise was the Ercoupe, which was designed as a "fool-proof" plane. The Ercoupe still has a number of accidents though. The Cirrus as well. The debate was "Do airplanes that are "idiot-proof" (Ercoupe with inter-connected rudder/ailerons, Cirrus with the BRS Chute) actually attract the weakest links to fly them?".

HLSD's question about the business model is the interesting point, and the "tipping point" of the VLJ question in my opinion. Most of Eclipse's order book comes from commercial operators - Air Taxis. Will the Air Taxi biz model hold up? I too am skeptical. I hope it does, but will believe it when I see it.

12-26-2007 | 09:05 AM

#13

Tgaug6300

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From: Company Pilot

Intresting how people make these VLJs out to be "Doctor Killers", and inexperienced pilots will be "blowing through" altitudes. Here is a news flash, these doctors, lawyers, and high dollar business people (who are owner-operators) are already in the Flight Levels. They are just doing it in their Meridians, PC-12s, and C90s. Lets face it, idiot pilots come in all shapes and sizes. Some have 200 hours and some have 22,000 hours. I agree that the auto pilot is only as good as the operator.

12-26-2007 | 10:14 AM

#14

HSLD

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From: B777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tgaug6300

Thanks for getting the thread back on track - the original post was regarding where pilot pay was going for VLJ's. Owner operators won't have to worry about hiring a pilot, but can be impacted by insurance premiums. On the flip side, the air taxi orders will need to attract pilots, and face not only insurance concerns, but also pay for the expected requisite experience.

I think that it's naive to lump VLJs into the "Dr. Killer" category as vilifying a fleet won't change the impact on wages.

12-26-2007 | 01:39 PM

#15

geosynchronous

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From: Corporate Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot_man

Yeah thanks for the serious answer.

I work cheap. I only require $125,000/month.

12-26-2007 | 02:15 PM

#16

HSLD

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From: B777

Quote:

Originally Posted by geosynchronous

I work cheap. I only require $125,000/month.

It's like the new union contract that was being presented to the membership where the lead negotiator proudly announced that the new contract only required working on Thursday. Someone from the back of the room shouted "You mean EVERY Thursday?"

12-26-2007 | 03:39 PM

#17

geosynchronous

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From: Corporate Captain

Well, if its every Thursday, then its back up to the $250,000/month!

12-27-2007 | 05:31 AM

#18

Cubdriver

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From: ATP, CFI etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSLD

IMO, that will be the downfall of VLJ's. It's a high performance high altitude jet from an insurer's perspective and premiums would be prohibitive to put a low time pilot at the helm. The jet's don't haul enough payload to produce the yield needed for an air taxi to pay experienced crews expected rates.

Great insight. Since there are a now several dozen Eclipses, Cessna Mustangs, and Embraer Phenoms in operation perhaps someone knows how those aircraft are being staffed and what the difference is if any in insurance premiums over a larger jets like the Citation CJ, LearJet, etc. Perhaps the solution is not cheaper insurance rates or lower pay for pilots of vlj's, but the number of short back to back flights one can make in a day makes for more paying seats.

Last edited by Cubdriver; 12-27-2007 at 05:57 AM.

01-31-2008 | 05:40 PM

#19

FlyHappy

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From: What do you have?

WE may know anyone can fly them, but the insurance companies are not going to accept that. That's why the low time VLJ pilots are being required to fly with "mentor" pilots. Especially if you're doing any type of commercial flying with your VLJ, the insurance companies are going to set high requirements for pilots. I think DayJets is seeing the issues with pay and VLJs -- you can't have low pay and expect to attract the quality of pilot you need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daytonaflyer

I would like to agree, but most of the new VLJ's are designed to be so automated that anybody can fly them with minimal airplane specific training. Thoughts of hundreds of doctors flying VLJ's, blowing through their assigned altitude and racking up FAA violations in the thousands will probably never happen since the technology on these planes is virtually "idiot proof".