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Competitive Times for a Corporate Gig

Old 06-05-2008, 09:44 PM
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Default Competitive Times for a Corporate Gig

Just curious how compeitive the following times would be in the corporate world.

Myself: 2000TT/1000 Turbine/250TPIC

Buddy of mine, at the same airline (F/O):

1600TT/750 Turbine SIC.

We both hold ATP's.

We're both playing "what if" and thinking about jobs we could possibly get when/if our airline goes belly up.

Be honest, no matter how painful. Try to provide some examples of jobs (if any) since niether of us has any experience in the corp. world.
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:35 AM
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Hello,

Many 135 charter operators require 2500+ hours in the total time column, largely due to insurance requirements, customers, and auditing firms such as Wyvern Ltd and ARG/US.

Originally Posted by ARG/US
ARG/US standard minimums require the Captain to have at least an ATP license, 3000 hours total time, and 1500 hours total PIC time. Specific subscriber minimums may be higher.
ARG/US standard minimums require the First Officer to have a Commercial license, 1000 hours total time, and 500 hours total PIC time. Specific subscriber minimums may be higher.
ARG/US standard minimums require that the crew have a combined total of 250 hours PIC time in type. This may be met by the PIC having at least 100 hours PIC time in type of the combined total of 250 PIC time in type. The SIC must be an ATP for his/her PIC time in type to qualify.
Some ARG/US subscribers have custom requirements beyond the ARG/US standard minimums. Be sure to ask them what their requirements are so you may provide them with an appropriately experienced crew.
Wyvern:
Code:
PILOT-IN-COMMAND (PIC) Experience Requirements
Turbojet Turboprop
Airman Certificate
FAA ATP FAA ATP
Type Rating
Appropriate type rating Appropriate type rating
Medical Certificate
FAA 1st Class FAA 1st Class
Total Time in All Aircraft
4,000 hrs with 3,000 hrs as PIC 4,000 hrs with 3,000 hrs as PIC
Total Fixed-wing Time
4,000 hrs with 3,000 hrs as PIC 4,000 hrs with 3,000 hrs as PIC
Total Multi-engine Time
3,000 hrs with 2,000 hrs as PIC 3,000 hrs with 2000 hrs as PIC
Time in Type
200 hrs with 100 hrs as PIC 200 hrs with 100 hrs as PIC
Actual Instrument Time
250 hrs as PIC 250 hrs as PIC
Category and Class last 365 days
300 hrs 300 hrs
Category and Class last 90 days
75 hrs 75 hrs
FAA Sanctions last 5 years
None None
Accidents/Incidents last 5 years
None None
SECOND-IN-COMMAND (SIC) Experience Requirements
Turbojet Turboprop & Citation 500 Series
Airman Certificate
FAA Commercial Instrument FAA Commercial Instrument
Type Rating
Appropriate type rating (if flying international) Appropriate type rating (if flying international)
Medical Certificate
FAA 1st Class FAA 1st Class
Total Time in All Aircraft
2,000 hrs 1,500 hrs
Total Fixed-wing Time
1,500 hrs 1,000 hrs
Total Multi-engine Time
1,500 hrs* 1,000 hrs
Time in Type
50 hrs 50 hrs
Actual Instrument Time
75 hrs 75 hrs
Category and Class last 365 days
200 hrs 200 hrs
Category and Class last 90 days
50 hrs 50 hrs
FAA Sanctions last 5 years
None None
Accidents/Incidents last 5 years None None

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Old 06-06-2008, 04:19 AM
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In the corporate world, times vary across a HUGE expanse of requirements. Some departments are going to want you to have 18 type ratings, 20,000 hours, and a space shuttle type rating. Others are going to want simply an ATP rating.

A lot of the minimums for part 91 corporate jobs are set by insurance requirements. At my employer, we have no minimum hour requirement, however I would consider 3000TT, 2500ME with ATP and turbine time competitive, maybe even more with the slowing of the industry and the number of airline pilots who are looking to leave the 121 world.

What it really comes down to (and I'm sure you've heard it), is networking- the 95% of the jobs in the corporate world is all about who you know. The other 5% are "right place, right time" deals.

I know guys that landed turbine part 91 jobs with as little as 700TT and others that have been passed over (or not considered) for King Air jobs with more than 10,000TT and time in type.

Here are some things that will help you land a corporate gig:
  • Competitive times, when compared against other applicants.
  • Geographic Location. The closer that you are to the job, the better you are. Unlike the airlines, many corporate operators like to hire people from nearby, since it means more stability on the part of the job applicant.
  • Inside recommendations/knowledge. Just like the airlines, internal recommendations go a long way. In some cases, you might not even hear about an opening without some sort of contact from within.
  • Type rating/time in type. Some companies absolutely won't hire you unless you come to the game with time in type or with a current type rating. Others understand that the perfect candidate may not have such experience.
  • Business skills/business writing. Since you may be doing more than just showing up and flying, some companies may closely review your resume for additional experience that may separate you from the group. For some corporate jobs, I prefer to send a professional CV rather than a resume... you might choose to do so as well.
  • Customer service/interpersonal skills. Corporate flying is much more interaction than most 121 pilots will see on the line. I've known pilots to be reprimanded or fired for stocking the wrong type of soda, or not ensuring that napkins are crease-free. Many corporate interviews are less technical and more interpersonal. Some have indepth personality assessments. Others include social functions such as dinner. Be prepared to show that you know how to "behave" in a formal social environment.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:02 AM
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Josh hit the nail on the head.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:02 AM
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the easiest way in to to start dating the chief pilot's daughter....it can backfire in the long run tho
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by IBPilot View Post
the easiest way in to to start dating the chief pilot's daughter....it can backfire in the long run tho

Forget dating the Chief Pilot's daughter. Date the guys daughter that owns the plane!
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:26 PM
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NIce new title, Josh. What does it mean, full time?
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Cubdriver View Post
NIce new title, Josh. What does it mean, full time?
It means that I get paid to sit around at home most of the time watching reruns of my favorite TV shows on Tivo! My wife jokes that my job is "His flying hobby that pays the mortgage..."
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:21 AM
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Avcrew, Planejobs, Climb to 350, JS Firm are filled with ENTRY level corp jobs which you barely qualify for. There is NO correlation between Corp and regional. If you are looking for Honeywell, Pepsi, Coke, Wachovia, Koch, Cargill, 3M, Penske ect. ect. ect.. than start with Voyage Air, LJ, Des Moine Aero ect. ect. ect... Get some more types and about 3000 more hours. I have cut my heating bills in half this year with resumes that say CL65 and EMB 135/145. There are tons of descent entry level jobs out there but you better be quick because the furlough train is almost up to full speed and if your not ahead of it than your under it! I have 8000+ hours with 5 type ratings, all Corp, most large international and I am 2 years into my Dream Corp job and it only took 8 progressively better jobs and 16 years. Good luck!
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 7700 View Post
Avcrew, Planejobs, Climb to 350, JS Firm are filled with ENTRY level corp jobs which you barely qualify for. There is NO correlation between Corp and regional. If you are looking for Honeywell, Pepsi, Coke, Wachovia, Koch, Cargill, 3M, Penske ect. ect. ect.. than start with Voyage Air, LJ, Des Moine Aero ect. ect. ect... Get some more types and about 3000 more hours. I have cut my heating bills in half this year with resumes that say CL65 and EMB 135/145. There are tons of descent entry level jobs out there but you better be quick because the furlough train is almost up to full speed and if your not ahead of it than your under it! I have 8000+ hours with 5 type ratings, all Corp, most large international and I am 2 years into my Dream Corp job and it only took 8 progressively better jobs and 16 years. Good luck!
It really is amusing when people think they know the formula about getting a flying JOB.. Truth is NO one KNOWS its always a CRAP Shoot....
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