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Mexico City Learjet Crash . . .Nov 4/08

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Mexico City Learjet Crash . . .Nov 4/08

Old 11-04-2008, 07:29 PM
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Default Mexico City Learjet Crash . . .Nov 4/08

MEXICO CITY (AP) _ A small plane crashed in a wealthy Mexico City neighborhood on Tuesday, killing the nation's powerful interior secretary and at least seven others, and setting dozens of cars ablaze.
Juan Camilo Mourino was one of President Felipe Calderon's closest advisers and has been embroiled in scandal since taking office in the midst of Mexico's violent fight against drug cartels. He was in charge of the country's security.


"His death causes me enormous pain," Calderon told a news conference. "I ask all Mexicans that they don't allow any event, no matter how difficult or painful, to weaken them in the pursuit of a better Mexico."


Presidential spokesman Max Cortazar said Mourino and a group of advisers were returning from an event in the city of San Luis Potosi when the plane went down. Officials say the crash appeared to be an accident.
The Learjet 24 set fire to about two dozen vehicles on a street in the posh Lomas de Chapultepec neighborhood in an area filled with tall office buildings.


Television footage showed rescue authorities fighting flames and keeping spectators away. Officials evacuated about 1,800 people from area offices.
Mayor Marcelo Ebrard said all those aboard the the plane were killed and that more people may have died on the ground.


"It's likely that we will find other bodies in the vehicles," Ebrard said in an interview with the Televisa news network.


A total of eight bodies were recovered. The jet seats eight, but it was unclear whether all the bodies were from the plane. At least 40 were injured, seven of them seriously.


Also aboard the plane was former assistant attorney general Jose Luis Santiago, who was previously in charge of pursuing extraditions against drug traffickers, and who had been the target of at least one planned assassination attempt in the past.


Mourino was also one of the most controversial officials in Calderon's cabinet, because of his family's involvement with private contracts to Mexico's state-owned oil company, precisely at a a time when Calderon sought to open up the legal framework for more such contracts.
Civil aviation officials were investigating the cause of the crash.
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:58 PM
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Default Learjet Crash

Model of Learjet is unknown at this time, its been reported as a Lear 24/ 25/ and 45. However Lear 45-028 XC-VMC is based at Mexico City and registered to 'Secretaria de Gobernacion'.
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:34 PM
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Default Update . . .

BBC News

Mexican news is reporting the aircraft as XC-VMC Learjet 45 Photo which would have been manufactured in 2000.

There have only Ever been two losses of Lear 45's,

Click Here N454LJ 45-004 during a test by the manufacturer when it went off the runway,

and Click Here I-ERJC 45-093 in June 03 after multiple bird strikes.

I certainly don't want to suggest anything, just merely to point out the safety record of the Lear 45, the accident was in Mexico, and it was carrying the countries Drug Czar - definitely a questionable situation?
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:00 PM
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Default Update . . .

NTSB SENDS TEAM TO MEXICO TO ASSIST WITH LEARJET AIRCRAFT
ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION

************************************************** **********

The National Transportation Safety Board sent a team of
investigators to Mexico City, Mexico, to assist in the
investigation of yesterday's accident in which a Learjet L45
(XC-VMC), crashed into a mixed, residential/commercial
neighborhood. It has been reported that all 9 persons on
board, including Mexican Interior Secretary, Juan Camillo
Mourino, were fatally injured.

==========================================

From Aviation Safety Network Click Here .

Reports state the Learjet was following Mexicana flight 1692, a B767-300, the Learjet did not comply with the required separation between the two aircraft. (Wake Turbulence.)
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Old 11-06-2008, 07:35 AM
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Default Update . . .

FlightGlobal update includes final 4 minutes of ATC (in Spanish) and Google Map.


Unofficially, the crew of XC-VMC was instructed by ATC to cross the radio-ease 'Matthew' at a speed of 180 knots, however the lear remained at a speed of 250 knots.

The Mexicana Boeing 767-300 in front of the Lear, was reported at 183 knots.

As the Lear was turning onto final, at a height of 726 metres, it was reported as 'falling out of the sky'.

Click Here XC-VMC appears on map as a Lear 25 which added to the confusion, but confirmed as Lear 45. Can be seen center, left, following the previously reported Mexicana B767-300.

Aviation Safety Network this list includes a Lear 25D, a Westwind 1124, a MS 760 Paris Jet, and a Citation 550 - all ran in to wake turbulence and crashed.

==================================================

LiveATC it is free to sign up. ATC of Lear XC-VMC and radar map, shows helicopter passing (higher) between B767 and Lear just before lear disappears from screen.

Last edited by robbreid; 11-06-2008 at 04:10 PM. Reason: Adding ATC tapes, and radar maps.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:00 AM
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Default Cnn

Engine fell off Mexican plane before crash, official says - CNN.com

CNN reporting an incorrect story regarding this crash???

From what I understand, officials were commenting on what happened to the Lear after impact, not in flight.

The engines were reported as operating normally until impact, the engine remains, CVR, FDR, were placed on a Mexican military transport, and flown to a USAF facility in Tuscon, AZ for investigation by NTSB and Bombardier.


YouTube Video ATC tape with video or radar.

Last edited by robbreid; 11-09-2008 at 12:13 PM. Reason: adding video.
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Old 11-10-2008, 06:38 PM
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Default XC-VMC Lear 45

Here are two threads of interest regarding Lear 45 . . .

From Professional Pilot Rumour Network;

Lear 45 Spoilers/Flaps

XC-VMC Accident
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:40 AM
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Default Latest updates;

Mexican statement;

There is an absence of traces on trees and obstacles, there are no cuts or broken cables. The plane struck at an angle of at least 45 degrees; the tip of a left wing impacted a tree. The tip of the right wing is embedded in a car.
#
The plane arrived at the impact in terms of integrity, the plane fell below the cables, and the heat melted the plastic that surrounds them.
#
The primary estimation of the speed is 500 km / h.
#
The impact on the corner of one of the buildings indicates that the remains of the aircraft had a significant speed - about 250-300 km / h.
#
The plane was slowed by a concrete structure. The deceleration of the aircraft was a product of the cars with which it was crashing, and then crashing into a corner of a building, which showed the left engine.
#
The left wing was broken in the initial impact, its leaking fuel.
#
The turbines were found 40 meters away from each other.
#
The right engine was fragmented into two parts, which leads to the conclusion that there was a rotational speed until the fall.
#
All the pieces found are scheduled with a number, name of the piece, and details that allow determnar the position of the piece.
#
The staff is working 24 hours a day.

NTSB response;

Associated Press

MEXICO CITY -- U.S. investigators have found no evidence of foul play in a mysterious plane crash that killed Mexico's second-most powerful official, the American ambassador said Wednesday.

U.S. National Transportation and Safety Board experts say that, so far, nothing in the flight data recorder, cockpit recorder or other evidence indicates that "sabotage or criminal activity caused the crash," Tony Garza said in a statement.

"The preliminary evidence indicates the crash was a tragic accident," he added.

The NTSB team has been in Mexico for a week to help investigate the Nov. 4 crash that killed Interior Minister Juan Camilo Mourino, who was the equivalent of Mexico's vice president and the closest confidant of President Felipe Calderon.

Five people on the ground and nine people on the plane were killed when the Learjet 45 suddenly plunged into an upscale Mexico City neighborhood. Also among those on board was former anti-drug prosecutor Jose Luis Santiago Vasconcelos.

From the start, Mexican investigators have said the crash appeared to be an accident. They ruled out a bomb last week, saying no trace of explosives was found at the crash scene.

Despite the lack of evidence, many Mexicans immediately suspected the crash was another attack by drug cartels, which have increasingly targeted security officials. Vasconcelos had been the target of at least one previous assassination plot.

Garza said the NTSB investigators would leave Mexico on Thursday but the agency would continue to help examine evidence and run simulations to determine what happened.

He gave no indication of whether investigators were close to determining the cause, saying only that "we must now all await the final conclusions" of Mexican aviation officials.

Mexican officials have offered a wide range of possibilities, from human error to turbulence from another plane. They ruled out engine failure last week.

The crash occurred in clear weather, and in their last recorded radio conversation, the plane's flight crew calmly discussed radio frequencies and speed with controllers. The tape went silent just as radar lost the plane's altitude reading.
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Old 11-14-2008, 01:45 PM
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Default Preliminary released;

Mexican Preliminary report released; (In Spanish), clear indications the Lear ran into the wake of the B767 . . .

http://www.vanguardia.com.mx/SACS/XS...tacion_sct.pdf

Google Translation;

Recording booth:

Copilot lower at 180 Charlie Mike
Pilot: Do you know what? Give me a dot, Alvarito huh?, please
Phone: Just a dot

Recording booth:

Copilot lower at 180 Charlie Mike
Pilot: Do you know what? Give me a dot, Alvarito huh?, please
Phone: Just a dot

Lopez says Meyer ( "the dot may be an indication of Altitude adjustment or a set point to the system of flaps that at the time was set at 20 degrees for landing at the IMTA)

Co-pilot: Yes, you have nothing further to 200 (in reference to reduce speed to 200 knots)

Pilot: We strike the nose
Phone: No, no , let it now

Pilot: Because we are close to leveling, right?
Co-pilot: Yes (at the moment is that the command pilot of the aircraft requested the opinion of the co-pilot to use the rudder to lift the nose of the aircraft and proceed well and reduce the speed that was to reach 180 knots to had been instructed by air traffic services. They remain 00:44:12)

The traffic controller instructed the Mexican to contact the control tower at the IMTA to receive landing instructions.

Answer; Having Mexican 692.

Recording booth:

Pilot: There is already stabilized
Phone: OK
Pilot: There is
Phone: down (referring to the flaps had fallen to the position of 20 degrees to which they had been ordered)

00:45:05 hours

The talk continues in the cabin:

Pilot: I will go to 160 by that I bring back (in clear reference to it had realized that the aircraft was heavy ahead)
Phone: It is beginning to turn
Pilot: So it is 5 miles from us
Pilot: I get eight eight, please
Phone: Eight eight hundred

00:45:57:

Traffic control service educates air transportation VMC to contact the control tower at the IMTA.

Pilot: Good Morning, thanks

Mexicana was the 1692 nine thousand 300 feet in altitude and at a speed of 168 knots. The VMC was nine thousand and 700 feet with a speed of 209 knots.

Recording booth:

Pilot: Oral turbulence of the latter
Phone: Oh GUEY
Pilot: Oh bastard
On the enviroment: What happened rea

00:43:13

Recording booth:

The pilot makes clear reference to the turbulence left by the ship that will precede it.

00:46:18 hours

Phone: Oh bastard
Pilot: Ay, ay
Pilot: Alvaro, what we do, Alvaro
Phone: Leave it, Leave it, Leave
Pilot: Alvaaro Tuya
Phone: Oh bastard
Pilot: Ay, ay
Pilot: Son of your #$@%! mother
Pilot: No Alvaro

00:46:23

Enviroment: similar to the sound of the alarm speaker altitude, while the alarm system alerted to local terrain.

TERRAIN TERRAIN

Copilot: Doisite

END
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Old 11-15-2008, 07:54 AM
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Default CCTV catches falling Lear . . .

VIDEO: Turbulence from 767 suspected in Mexican Learjet crash
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