Ziggy

With the price of oil staying around the $75 mark per barrel, and the cost of Jet-A continuing to rise. I am wondering how aircraft owners, operators, and corporate flight departments are addressing this concern. Has this started to detour people away from utilizing private aircraft? What do you foresee in the near future for general aviation?

FuelJetA

Ugh...
Here is what happens with us. It has effected us immensely in a number of ways.

First, we have stopped flying execs in the Sabre and only the CEO gets to use it. So, that leaves us packing these 500K/yr executes in our Caravan and flying for 2.5 hours so that we can save the dough.

Second, the aircraft is on th block and a new Avanti II is on order...We all know it goes almost as fast and uses significantly less fuel.

Third, my job has gotten a LOT harder. I spend hours (literally) per flight on the phone, calling FBO and contract fuel companies trying to get the best prices, then carefully planning so that we tanker fuel where it is cheap and we skip fuel where it is not.

Fourth, we are in serious negotiations with a few airports about installing really big tanks for our use...like 15,000-30,000 gallons b/c we can get a great deal like that...it's expensive to start but in the long run, it will save.

So to answer your question...

YES. It has affected us significantly but we aren't really flying less and don't plan to. As they say, the show must go on and we need the planes to conduct business. Things are changing a lot, but not stopping. I think more and more companies will find different ways of conserving, but it is not going to stop anyone any time soon.

Does this help?

Ziggy

FueljetA: Thanks for your reply, yes this does help. I've talked with various captains and charter depts about this avenue of GA, but this was almost a year ago.
I've read forcast after forcast about the predicted growth of GA over the next 5 to 10 yrs and am wondering what affect the fuel issue with play on this outlook. One recent article in Pro Pilot magazine investigated the privately owned fuel farm possibility. And the conclusion I came to was that only large flight depts could or would justify the cost of installing, certifying and maintaining such a system.
As far as negotiating fuel price for other services and tankering this can only go so far. I also sure that single VLJ's and turboprop aircraft will continue to gain in popularity if current events continue to unfold.
Any other opinions or insight you or anyone can shed would be greatly appretiated.

Pilotpip

Sabres, Lear 24s, G-IIs and IIIs are relatively cheap on the used market right now. I think the gas-hog factor has more to do with that than Stage 3 noise requirements now.

I have a feeling that Beech and Piaggio will start selling a lot of B-200s and Avantis to flight departments like FuelJetA's. Same can probably be said about PC-12s.

Other than that, our FBO is servicing just as many jets at $4.50 a gallon as we did when I started working here 4 years ago at $1.37 a gallon.

Ziggy

Pilotpip: Sure old straight jets are selling relatively cheap. At one time a owner I was flying for was considering on upgrading from a Hawker 800 to a GIII. The GIII purchase price was going to be 4 mil less that was he got his Hawker for. But the Stage II, Fuel econemy, and now horrendous maintainance costs what killed that deal.
Now stage 4 has arrived so that will only continue to limit the access of 2 & 3 aircraft over the future.
So far I just trying to gauge a possible career in private sector. If fuel prices continue to soar, this avenue of GA will only go to the more elite and thereby thin out to the select few pilots to hold those jobs.

FuelJetA

I fly a Sabreliner 65....
It has the venerable TFE 731-3D. Not a straight jet at all and really not thristy for what you get. But still, burning 1500 lbs/hr total in cruise is too much.

FlyerJosh

Ziggy-

Like others we too have felt the burden of increased costs, but it really hasn't changed much other than the budget. Unlike other operators, we can't shift flying to a small plane since we only have one aircraft (a Citation Encore).

We still plan our stops based on the service that we get at FBOs and the convenience, rather than cost... that doesn't mean though that we haven't adopted measures to try and control the costs.

We do tanker fuel when we can and try to by from the local "mom and pop" operations that typically have cheaper fuel. We definately try to tanker back to base since fuel at home is some of the highest around. We're in the process of evaluating installing our own fuel farm at home, or trying to negotiate a bulk fuel contract through the FBO where we buy x number of gallons and pay upfront (hedge).

We've also conducted some cost analysis and figured that until fuel gets really expensive (at least twice what it is now), flying at long range cruise doesn't really offset the costs of the increased flight hours on the plane.

Also, I don't know how the VLJ market will affect things, but I would guess that you won't see fuel issues come into play too much with VLJ decisions. They certainly will be a thought, but I don't see very many departments "downsizing" to VLJs. I also am curious to know how some of these execs feel about single engine planes for corporate use... my boss in particular doesn't care for them because he likes the added security of two engines (especially since we fly into and out of short strips in mountainous terrain)...

Ziggy

FueljetA: The Hawker 800 also had the TFE 731's and would burn approx 1300 in cruise. I still have to say I think that's pretty economical for a 8 pax jet. Of course I've only flown 2 types of jets in my short span as a pilot.

Flyerjosh: I'm glad to hear that your company still utilizes their aircraft for business on an increased basis.

I was wondering do you also use your aircraft for charter? If so has business increased, no change, or decreased? Only reason I bring this up is because during summer of 05 I was a contract pilot on the hawker doing mostly charter runs. We had a really heavy 04 x-mas, Feb and Mar were great heavy charter times too. But that summer of 05 was dead, nothing. I mentioned this to the FB0 we use for maintainance and they also said their summer was unusually slow. This was when automobile fuel was approaching the $3 mark in my area and the news was covering the record profits for the oil companies.
In the end I lost the jet when the owner found out he could charter a jet when he wanted to take friends along, other than that a first class ticket on the airlines would do just fine.

FlyerJosh

We don't charter our jet out (it's a 100% 91 operation), but the way that the organization is set up we do flying for both our parent company and our company (we are a wholly owned subsidiary), so we keep relatively busy this time of the year. The holidays are typically slower (from mid Nov-early Jan) since that's the time period when our execs are mostly back at home with family and spending time at HDQ dealing with end of year issues...

Overall though, our department has seen an increase in flying (both because business is doing very well, and because we upsized our plane from turboprop to small jet last year.) We fly more trips that used to be airlined or driven now.

We do occassionally charter aircraft too when the flight department schedule is full or we need to transport more than 7 people to a destination (for things like board meetings and major conferences).

As prices continue to raise though, I don't doubt that the cost of fuel (and fuel efficiency) will play a more prominent role in our operations.

RynoB

My flight department is getting busier. We upgraded from a CJ1 to a CJ3 earlier this year, and the boss hasn't batted an eye at the increased fuel burn. Of course it helps that he is heavily involved in the oil and gas business. He's smiling all the way to the bank (of which he also owns several). The higher the price, the more we fly.