Hey foreign pilot, get out of my seat!!!
 

Why is it that the FAA allowed all the foreigners in to take US corporate pilot jobs, when its already so difficult to get a good job? A US pilot can't go to Canada/Europe/Asia unless they retake all their flight tests, yet anyone can come to the US and their license is automatically converted by the pencil-whipping FAA. You want to stimulate the economy, then start protecting your domestic pilots first.

That depends on the definition of "foreign pilot". To work in the US, the "foreign pilot" must be a US citizen or a permanent resident. The same goes for other countries as well. To work in Europe, you must be EU citizen. Under special circumstances when a country does not have its own qualified pilots, then the government lets the companies bring foreign pilots on a temporary basis.

When you saw the foreign pilots, did it occur that they may be US citizens?

Good answer

Gotta get the right to work first. Not exactly easy. I am working on flying in NZ. Got the residency, then only 1 ATPL test if you have the right amount of experience. Then comes the hard part...finding a job. Once you get the job you have to listen to others tell you to get out of their seat. I have residency by being married to a citizen. Many foreigners are here working in the US the same way. More power to them.

First of all, foreign pilots can not get a corporate job so easily. Any foreign ATP pilot needs to get his ATP written and need to take a flight test with the FAA to get their FAA ATP. As such, the FAA is only complying with the law and regulations of the United States of America. In addition these guys, in order to be competitive, usually need an FAA type-rating, since foreign type-ratings are not endorsed by the FAA. As a side note, this process already brings some kind of substantial money to the US economy. Secondly, as stated in the previous post, that means nothing if you do not have the right to work in the US. Many of these guys, and I am one of them, initially came to the US to do jobs requiring some high-level of education and because US employers were not able at that time to find the right candidates domestically. While performing their job for many years, these guys got their FAA ratings (more money brought to the US economy) and finally, since this country is a free country until proven otherwise, and because it was their legal right to do so, they decided to pursue a second career in aviation. Now, I do not believe that the number of foreign pilots in the corporate world is responsible for the fact that the current situation is crap for almost everybody. Finally, it is usual to target foreign citizens when **** hits the fan. Let us not forget that these individuals worked through the system legally, brought something to this country and, like myself became US citizens.
My humble suggestion is for you to direct your anger and understandable frustration to those who are responsible for today's situation. Scapegoating (not sure that is a proper term) corporate foreign pilots is not going to fix the current ****ty jobmarket. That being said, I wish you will be one day on the other side of the fence and let us know how you feel.

Skull nailed it! Thanks for articulating my thoughts so much better then I could have done.

Skull said, "That being said, I wish you will be one day on the other side of the fence and let us know how you feel."

What do you think prompted me to write the post? Not quite fair when I want to fly in another country yet can't get citizenship because I don't have a job waiting in that country and can't get a flight job because I'm not a citizen. And if I could, Europe/Canada/Asia want me to start at square one on the flight training.... not one simple test (if any) given to foreigners by the FAA. But a European pilot can migrate here, have practically no cost on the license conversion, and step right into a job, yet I can't do that over there..... So you tell me, wouldn't you be ****ed? Welcome to my side of the fence. The US needs some kind of Certification reciprocity.

So as I stated before, "get out of my seat". This loophole needs to be fixed by our government.

they weren't and they were not married.

Baloney. You can get Canadian licenses relatively easily, no flight test required. The job market in Canada isn't good, but it isn't good at home either. I fly in Asia on a FATA based on my FAA license, and there are hundreds of Americans like me - and that's just in India. Some parts of Europe are problematic, but I know we've got Americans flying in Ireland. Yeah, we can start throwing out green card holders, but they'll be replaced with people like me who got thrown out of a foreign country as a result. My resume and qualifications are a bit more competitive than the average "foreign" pilot, so you'd be even worse off. Count your blessings. :)

Wonderful first post, BTW. :rolleyes:

Why is it "your" seat? Maybe it's my seat! Stay outta my seats!

Well I know with our friends south of the border it is almost imposible to get a job if your not a citizen of their country. Oh but hey there alot of them who are not US residents live in Mexico come fly over here and do it for slave wages as well. I know of a crew and have confirmed it that flys a brand new N registred lear 45xr, FO makes $20,000 US and Captain $36,000 and thats flying over 500 hours a year. Makes me sick

First it was GOJET,MESA etc. pilots , now it is Foreign pilots. Some of you need a real good medical check up.

Double Dog Dare,

There is "some sort of reciprocity" as far as getting EU licenses for example. Among other things, it takes hard work. None of the foreign guys you might come through here have had practically no cost license conversion, and have stepped right into an aviation job. Most of them if not all have brought something to the US and have worked extremely hard to earn the privilege of leaving their "American dream" today. And no we did not have a job waiting for us in the US, we just worked hard to get some education which in turn made us more competitive than others and we were hired by US employers. We then became permanent residents and later US citizens. Then, and only then, were we able to switch to a career in aviation. Unfortunately, no one can expect to fulfill his dream in a foreign country right away. However, all of us have something in common, we knew that we had to earn it and there is plethora of American guys all over the world who have exactly done that. So, you too can do it over there if you have the patience and dedication, but like the rest of us you will have to bring something to the table as we all did here. If you decide not to do it, then you will have to accept the fact that competing for jobs here is the only way to go, and trust me employers do not favor foreign pilots against the American ones during interviews.
By the way, no country except you to start from square one as far as licenses conversion but none of them will give you a blank check and tell you Mr. pilot welcome aboard we were waiting for you, here is your new license, here's your right to live and work here and here's the job that was waiting for you. Not even the US!

What an absolute load of xenophobic bollocks. What do you think these people do, turn up at the borders saying let me in I'm a pilot??

You can't decide to just migrate to the US and get in. To get a job with any 121 carrier in the US, you have, at the very least got to have a work permit. You only get one of those if you're applying for a Green Card because either you've got family here or you're married to a US citizen.

You want a job in any of those countries? Get the right to work and live there, then convert your license and then apply for a job. It's no different than the US.

You are absolutely right, but unfortunately history has proven itself that even a good medical checkup is no cure for lack of tolerance.

The bigest obstacle would be conversion of FAA license to JAA than get work permit. However that should not be a reason for US born pilot to blame so called foreign pilot who most likely happenes to be a US citizen for his unemployment.

I strongly believe (albeit with limited understanding of the process) that if you took a German national and a US national and crossed them up, the German would be first to achieve licenser, legal work status, and employment with less of a headache and more money left in his wallet.

I find it almost naïve to think that the US isn’t more inviting to foreigners and their skills than other countries (European nations in particular). I don’t believe the suggestion itself is politically incorrect, but at the same time I roundly reject blaming those that achieve employment in this country through the proper channels for ones lack of employment. There’s a system in place and if said system is properly worked to achieve a goal, don’t blame the user but rather the system itself.

I guess it goes both ways though… I know trained, licensed, and practicing physicians in other countries jump through and entire circus of hoops to be able to practice medicine in the US. I flew with a gent whose wife was a doctor in South Africa; he mentioned that when she moved here they practically made her re-attend all of medical school in order to practice.

Exactly my thoughts.

Double Dog Dare
Why don't we just kill these people, I think that would be a good thing. Your either fascist or an idiot with a post like this. I am an American currently working in Europe and I spent about 1 year of my life trying to get the JARs and Working Permit to fly here and none has ever said to me "Your a Foreigner get the out".

You should concentrate on trying to help the US AIRLINE INDUSTRY and maybe RAISE the BAR for your company or fellow collegues instead of throw all these stupid comments out regarding foreigners, if your idol is Hitler your about 66 years late.

I find it more sick that you accept wages like 20,000 US dollars to fly a plane around .. work on getting that fixed.

PS- Great first post, you have made us all proud.

You can't just walk up to the FAA and get a licence mate, not if you want to fly for reward.

You CAN get a licence conversion to fly privately, or ferry a US registered aircraft, but if you want to be able to be employed you will need to do the FAA ATPL written and a flight test. Up until recently, if you are on an FAA ticket, all you'd have to do for Canada is take the written, no flight test. That may actually still be the case.

Other than Europe it's about the same, ATPL written followed by a check ride with the people who hired you.

Apparently you have not been to Asia or the Middle East where there are loads of Americans flying. If you took the ratio of foreigners working in the States to Americans working as foreigners for overseas airlines you might be surprised.

I'm wondering what the real problem here is. I've managed to get job's in all sorts of countries who were nice enough to have me (never the US mind you), and wrote the ATPL exams for each one. Perhaps, instead of bagging people, you might want to just try a little harder.Or maybe do just that before writing a post like this again.

I don't accept low wages, have Hitler as my idol or am an idiot or fascist. Just frustrated at the system and at the guys that are driving the pay down by doing what you said, accepting jobs paying 20K a year, or worse, paying to fly to build time.

It;s sad when you spend so much on a college education and flight training, then years flying and building time to see your airplane sold and be out of work, while across the boarder they are hiring but not unless your a citizen with their license - and to convert you basically have to start over with private thru commerc/multi/instrument..not cheap...and at least a year to do. Yet foreigners can come into our job market with much less expense and hassle to convert their licenses. You can't argue it, its a fact. And as far as harping on me about changing things, is that why you left to fly overseas?
You said you converted, what did it cost you in money, and who paid, you?

Thanks for the comments... I don't expect any handouts, and willing to work hard to do this and I checked into converting it into Canada and was told that I had to take the private, and their versions of commercial, instrument, multi-engine, including all written, oral and flight tests, training to meet the test mins, which would be big bucks (approaching $50K) and take about a year. Europe was the same or even more difficult. Then there's the citizenship issue.

I mean if foreign pilots can take one written and/or a flight test and be done, why the heck can't we?

Interesting, but that's not what I was told... You said you managed to get jobs in alot of countries, but not the US. I believe if you start with an Eu/canada license, it's much easier to convert to another country's license than starting with a US license, which is my point of frustration.

Blame JAA...

This is a hoax, right? You're putting us on. C'mon ...

Flight Crew Licensing - Conversion Agreement between U.S. and Canada

I told you in my first post that the FAA to Canadian was easy. You probably talked to a Canadian that had the same attitude as yours. You fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Or, like I say, you're just putting us on.

Many people on this board , including Americans with FAA licenses, are flying overseas. Including me. JAA and FAA have about the same status. In India I took "one written and the flight test". Been here two years now. We all told you this.

So this is either what the Brits call a "wind up", or you're just ... dense. In either case I say to all ...

DON'T FEED THIS TROLL!

(anymore)

Then why post something you weren't sure about, especially when you put it the way you did.

You keep harping on about the need to be a citizen of another country, in order to work there. You DO NOT need to be a citizen to fly in another country, you merely need the right to work and live there. Most countries don't hand out citizenship like confetti. Australia gives you the option after 2 years of permanent residency. The US gave me the option after 5 years of living here.

Also, any time you want to grow a few grey hairs, have a look at what's invovled in doing just the ATPL theory for a JAR license. It's damn near, almost a 4 year degree. Compared to kindergarten level exams we do here, why would you expect them to just hand over a license, especially when you've never even flown in EU airspace.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS...

Just let the tool fester in his own lack of knowledge and ignorance. Maybe someone else got educated reading the other "foreign" pilots post that it isn't as hard as this clown thinks it is. Please go back to working on your PVT license.