Help!
 

Any Ideas how to get rid of a fulltime co-pilot that is sometimes unsafe:eek: and driving me nuts but is a close friend with the owners of the plane.

part 91 corp flight department
Im the captain and xyz is the co-pilot but has been with the company longer. Last Captain quit to pursue non aviation related career but mentioned this '' problem" to me.:confused:

Thanks and fly safe.

Well, unfortunately you will probably lose a friend over this one but you may be saving lives including your own. The best way to deal with it is to just be honest with him. Tell him the truth and express your concerns, if that does not work and you are comfortable approaching the owners on your own then do it. One thing to remember though if this backfires on you it is not the best time to be looking for a job right now...you need to ask yourself is it related to personality differences between the two of you and this guy is just a tool or is it related to safety. Safety always takes precedence in my book and if you are the captain you call the shots where that is concerned. Good luck with this one !

The only solution
 

Recommend him for an upgrade to the left seat. :p

Just like swept wing. You are the Captain. Can you go to the Chief Pilot? If not, I would request a private meeting and discusss your observations with the boss. If you get fired, I know you can find a good lawyer and sue for wrongfull termination. I would document everything starting now.

Another question is are you going to let this unsafe pilot kill you. Review the B-52 crash. Remember that nobody would fly with, Bud, the pilot except the Commander who had no choice and knew he was unsafe. They are all dead now.


Spanky

Thanks Sweptwing. It def. is a situation of safety in the cockpit as well as a small personality clash. Im a lot younger than this co-pilot and I feel he has the "I should be in the left seat" syndrome even though he doesnt meet insurance mins or have the skill. My biggest concern is losing my job if I talk to the owners, especially in this economy. I have been furloughed twice (121 and 135 jet) in the past two years and really like this type of flying and company but this job is so much harder than it has to be especially flying a single pilot certified t-prob with this Co-pilot. thanks again.

Thanks Spanky
Unfortunetly Im the only Capt. so I guess Im the Chief as well

Document it all, with specifics on how that persons handling XXX responsibility is not getting done, or isn't up to standards, and is making you work much harder, or it's distracting you from performing your duties. Then have it ready for when you meet with the boss-man.

atpsr22 you already know that safety has to come first and as we all know the cockpit is no place for a personality conflict. I think you have to atleast sit down one on one and talk to the co-pilot first about the safety issues. If he is not willing to listen and learn then that says alot about him as a person. If the owner is not willing to listen about safety concerns then do you really want to work for someone who does not believe safety comes first. Nobody can tell you what to do but always remember no matter what you do in life do it for one reason, because it is the right thing to do. Good Luck and be safe.

Document everything that is happening. Try and have a one on one sit-down with this person. If he refuses, then try and get a sit-down with the both of you and the boss. The place I work at now, we had a pilot who was unsafe, broke the rules, etc. Everyone knew this. But anytime he was going somewhere, and he had room, he would take that person if they asked. He went on a flight one night, carrying this ride-along up front (C-421) and he had 4 passengers in the back. A mother and her 3 kids. The weather into the airport was not so good. He was so concerned trying to get his clearance in the air to leave this airport after he let off his passengers while shooting a GPS approach, he did not pay enough attention, busted minimums, flew through trees, and crashed. He and the ride along, and one of the kids in the back (8 years old) were killed. Try and explain that to the surviving mother and the other two kids, and her husband.

does the co-pilot get to fly or just warm the right seat? At our company co-pilots only get to fly if they are doing a good job in the right seat. Doing a good job means being safe. The captains don't owe them anything. So I could care less if they fly or not. If they cant get their heads squared away then they can just get the gear, flaps, run checklists and talk on the radio. Its up to them to get themselves out of the right seat.

So, what does the guy do? What are his actions that are unsafe? As stated before, you are the captain... you were hired to be the Captain/Chief pilot and are the one the owner has entrusted his and his families safety with.

Maybe you can come up with some sort of ops manual and get the boss to sign off on it. Make everything in it about safety, then when your co-pilot does something unsafe just pull out the manual. Also, if its a single pilot plane and you can operate it that way, then do so. Every leg is the captains leg. Remember... the F.O. flys at the captains convenience.

Bottom line..... you're in charge. Dont let the guy push you around and cause you to get fired..... then again, maybe thats what he is trying to do.:(

Send him in for a upgrade to the left seat and tell the school all the details and let them try to train him and hopefully after he keeps crashing the sim, and with his training records, you can have some good info to can him..

Lynn

Wow, I can not believe some of the advice being giving here.

You do not need to stab him in the back. All that will do is get one of you fired and both of you on edge with each other.

Be an adult, sit him down, and talk to him about the problem. Have a rational conversation that goes both ways. Listen to his opinion also.

If that doesn't change anything then go to the aircraft owner and once again talk about the problem.

If neither of these fix the problem than perhaps it is time to re-evaluate your current job.

I try and let him fly the empty legs if the weather permits. When he is the pnf he trys to do the checklist/radio/gps/ but cant manage to do more than one thing at a time.

his unsafe actions include not maintaining centerline(like entire plane left or right) bust altitude constantly by 150', wrong crosswind corrections, full scale ILS on LOC and GS. The biggest thing is that he just doesnt listen to me. If I try and tell him something it is usually meant with an sarcastic response or he will try and blame his mistake on me. Sometimes he will just quit flying all together if I try and correct him. One time I denied him an takeoff due to weather and waketurb. and he completly shutdown. No radios, no checklist, no call outs, nothing just stared out his window for the 2 hour flight to home base...if i could only fire him:eek:

these are the exact things you need to FIRST confront him with.. and SECOND if thats a dead end take to the boss.

Document EVERYTING with dates, flight numbers, passenger lists, and full descriptions of what happened. Bring it up to the owner and show him your concerns. If this doesn't work (I know its hard) look into being the whistle blower on this one.

Next time he lands put your hand on his shoulder and tell him you like the way he handles the stick.

That should do it.

Ha!! I did that once with a new FO who had just finished OE. He was so scared to screw up he didn't say a word besides the check lists. So about third leg, when I had my hand on the the throttles I told him to put his hand on mine. Needless to say he started talking.

Also, This co-pilot is logging all of the time that he is in the airplane as SIC. Is this legal, being that its a single pilot certified turbo prop and im the PIC in the left seat, Part 91, and Im not a CFI giving "dual"????

If the airplane does not require a SIC, then he cant log it as such. In 135 ops, that could change things, but you are pt91 so he shouldnt do that.
But that isnt your problem or consearn. The bosses are paying you to keep them safe. That is your obligation, and you need to address these issues now, not later. Not to mention, if he is busting altitudes and other regs, its your butt not his. You are PIC, you are the one who is going to get repremanded.
If it were me, I would approach the boss, sit down with him, and have a very calculating conversation with him. I would tell him that you understand that they are friends but you need to discuss these issues. I would tell him that you feel that it is very important that he is informed on the situation, and that the both of you, together, make a plan of attack to deal with the problem. He probably will want to know why you have waited to discuss this with him. I would tell him you havent yet had a talk with "wonder pilot" because you wanted to document these issues first, and then talk to him (the boss) about how to approach and handle this situation, again, out of respect for thier friendship.
On a side note, I wouldnt let him touch the controls until he can get you from point A to point B without getting you violated, and I would put strict weather/flight condition minimums on him.
Good luck with that

Absolutely not legal. Single pilot certified T-prop. Part 91 operation. If this person is doing all these things that you said in previous posts, HE DOES NOT BELONG THERE! All he is doing is taking up space someone else could be occupying, adding weight, and causing greater fuel burn. I flew with a person very much like this once. He froze on a strong cross wind landing at 100ft. If I did not take the controls, oooooh, baby!

Ahh, the infamous coupled approach:rolleyes:

I wouldn't sweat the SIC logging he's doing, any real operator is going to laugh at that time anyways. I'm not saying it's bad experience, but it has no meaning towards any total time. Remember, it is your logbook, you can log whatever you want!!!

Still good luck, definately have documented instances IMO to present to your boss.