Laid Off Pilots Will Fly For Food
 

Mercer and Fairview is very close to our condo. Maybe I'll go over there tomorrow and ask these guys to join APC. I do have to give these guys points for imagination and creativity.

man that sad to watch that !:(
we are not talking about a newbie commercial
or cfi.... steffen holds an atp mel, typed pic in the be1900
and ce525 and cfi, cfii and mei, with thousand of
hours !
guess i shouldnt be so hard on myself when i send resumes
out like candy and NOBODY bothers to even answer me.

And what has the mantra been about prostituting one’ self?

I wouldn't consider it "prosituting" oneself. I found myself for the first time laid off in this industry.

After the normal routine of CFI'ing, flying night freight for a couple of years, flying for a regional carrier for almost eight, and most recent with a corporate/135 that has been around for almost as long as the company (1926). However, my company after being hit over the last year laid off for the first time. Almost 20 of us in all in two seperate layoffs of December '08 and my group in Feb '09.

I was hired as a Capt with over 7300 hrs at the time (which barely met Wyvern and ARGUs mins for them). Now having just over 8000 hours and 2 type ratings, I have never been more "experienced" in my career. However, jobs are scarce, and those that have them I'm sure feel fourtunate. Those of us that dont are trying like heck to find one.

I applaud them for doing something different. I have sent at least 2 applications per week to comply with U/E benefit guidelines. I have had 2 interviews out of that. I talked with an HR for a position that was posted for a trainer at a local fleet/farm company which paid 33k. He stated he received 180 resumes in one day, and over 300 that week for just that one position. That is the reality of competition for employment these days.

I am fortunate my wife is a nurse and was able to send her to work full time while I play Mr. Mom to our two young daughters. After the initial "shock and awe" of losing my job for the first time, I taking it in stride and enjoying the time with the family that I have missed over the years commuting and overnight flying whether cargo or corporate.

But make no mistake, I have always said if you are in this industry long enough, you will either walk a picket line, a strike line, or unemployment line. It was just my time for the U/E line, and have taken this unfortunate event in my life to appreciate my family and friends I have for support when I needed it.

I am sorry but with that approach we will get paid "food wages" only. As professionals we need to act as professionals. I understand that the market is flooded by out of work pilots. I know because I have been out of work since Feb. If we "work for food" then we as a community will accept the "crap" wages we get paid and complain about.

When was the last time you saw Managers/executives holding up signs in the corners.


If we as professionals want to get paid professional wages, then we need to as a collective group not accept being paid $30K a year for spending 5-10 nights away from the family. Is it worth it?

Billy Baroo...I commend you on spending time with the kids. I am doing the same. But my wife works in Real Estate and that industry runs parallel to aviaition. I love being Mr. Mom. When I was in the military you didn't get much time to do that. But since leaving, it is nice to have fun wih the bambinos.

Spanky

You are exactly correct.

It is not only prostituting yourself, it is ruining the profession. Management cynics have always said that pilots are their own worst enemies. This behavior is a classic example.

Carl

Oh they don't need to do that, they already made millions off by sacrificing others careers so they can bring home their golden parachute.

What happened to Obama holding people accountable? Doesn't this need to happen in the airline industry as well?

Unbelievable...wanting the government to hold the people accountable while the people refuse to hold the government accountable. And I ain't talking about electing in a new group of crooks with a different letter behind their name...

Not all "suits" are evil as you seem to think they are; while there are a few highly publicized leeches other managers bust their humps 80+ hours a week to keep their companies afloat (which helps keep their employees receiving a paycheck). Flying a bizav plane, you might do well to remember that.

I don't fly a plane right now, I got fired so the company could get their precious ARGUS Platinum rating.

Very insightful and very well said, thank you.

Your post, sir, is right on target as well.

I did not make it to my condo so I never got to meet these two guys and ask them how their job search is coming along. These are extraordinarily difficult times, not just in aviation, but in all sectors and every profession. It is easy to say these two are prostituting themselves and lowering the bar, but does anybody have any real suggestions for them? What are they supposed to do? Take a job at McDonald's? Note that they have not had a single nibble from any corporation or airline, let alone be able to fly for food only. To be honest, I think the "will fly for food" poster is nothing more than a gimmick to attract attention. A staff member from a nearby food bank approached them, but they declined the offer of free food.

Washington's Employment Security Department (aka unemployment office) has this new program called Self Employment Assistance Program (SEAP). Perhaps these two fellows can take advantage of this program.

There is no shame in any occupation where one can earn a wage, and eat too. In the '70s when airline furlough was rampant, those displaced sort work where ever they could, and not for food, but for a wage.

It's tough not be be trained in another profession to hedge one's bet during one's hiatus from a flying career.

Unemployed
 

I was laid off in November of 2002 as a 757-200 First Officer. Since then I have had a few job offers. A local FBO wanted me to fly their kingair and run the office at $1700 per month. A local flight school extended an offer of $22 per hour to conduct stage checks. A farmer offered me 30K to fly a kingair and work in the potato shed when not flying, however I am sticking to my guns. I will not accept a lessor job.

I am an experienced professional and am holding to my professional expectations. I need a job that will replace the income that I can make doing other things and permits me to maintain a satisfactory quality of life. The problem it that those kinds of jobs are getting harder to find.

My guess is that whenever an airline furloughs or laid off pilots a third will find another job, another third will take a lessor position and the remaining third will never fly professionally again. I imagine that I will be on a perpetual job search.

Skyhigh

no pride or self respect in a land of the greatest opportunity on earth, this mindset IS the cancer in the industry both 91 and 121..

yes sir, just sad.

At least they're "flying for food", it could be worse, they could offer to fly for FREE just to stay current and/or maybe log some turbine time.

We might see this scenario unfold at some flight department; "hi John, thanks for coming in, we need you to fly for food in order for us to stay competitive with other flight deparments"

I am very curious. If you will not accept a lessor job, just what exactly are you doing now that will replace the income you expect to make? Do you have a family to feed? Mortgage? Everyday life expenses? If you were a 75 FO, you should have been making pretty good money, even back then. So what do you do now? Not trying to be nosy, just curious.

Mr SkyHigh
Your are my hero, You got it Sir, and a person with your training and profession can not except any job..

I'm a little confused, and I apologize if I'm missing something here. You were laid off all the way back in 2002 and the best jobs you found were those listed above? You're kidding, right? The regionals were hiring like crazy during that time! I got hired at Skywest in '01 and left there last year making over 90k a year as a senior RJ Captain. Did you not apply to any regional airlines during that time?

It was time to go
 

Cycle,

Most of us probably agree that Skyhigh made the right decision for himself and his family. By 2002, he had discovered that almost no pilot job was likely to provide the income and lifestyle that he sought, at least not within an acceptable amount of time. His personal requirements in these areas were more stringent than most of us insist upon, but they should be respected. The layoff triggered his decision to seek a different career, a decision that, based on his posts, he would eventually have reached anyway.

Keeping an eye on what's important
 

I agree. It's nice to be able to walk away and keep your standards high. You also need to provide for your family, those who give you support on a day to day basis. You always need a fall back position when things go unexpectedly bad. I think Chris Campbell and Steffen Schmidt are being creative in their attempt to gain attention, or at least I hope that's the case. All said, this is a tough business to be in.

Laid Off
 

I was 36 years old with 6400 hours of mostly multi-engine jet or turbine time by the time I was laid off. I was married with two kids and one on the way. I needed to replace my job with something that offered a similar wage, future and standard of living as the job I was laid off from.

Hindsight is 20/20. Looking back I suppose I could have taken a job with Skywest and been able to make it work however at the time it was difficult to see where the path lied. I have a family to support so commuting to an FO position that payed 18K to start was a huge step back that I was not prepared to risk my families happiness again over.

Every flying job is a risk. When you are in the trenches it is not easy to tell what the best path is. At that time we were on the ropes financially. I had a young family and had endured years of low starting wages by the time I was laid off. Many regional jobs that are superstars today are often dead ends tomorrow. It would not have been a reasonable thing to virtually abandon my family and commute across the country to take another risk on another regional job. I was at the age where I needed to be at a career objective major airline. I needed an Alaska Airlines job however few were hiring at the time.

Instead I moved my family back home into a two bedroom apartment on $1300 a month of unemployment insurance and started over. In a few years I was able to build my family a dream home on acreage thanks to my new career. I miss flying and wish that things had worked out differently. It is a lot easier to bounce back in aviation as a single person. However my position is that if this profession was worth much a pilot with experience and education shouldn't have to keep starting over at nothing every time there is a lay off or furlough.


SKyhigh

Rental Homes
 

Currently I own and manage a fleet of rental homes that I personally built over the years since being laid off. They provide a good living that meets our needs and offers a better future for my family. We also are developing a few other small businesses that bring in some extra income as well.

As a 757 first officer after nearly three years in the seat I made $42,500 a year. Not bad however not good either after almost two decades of sacrifice and investment. I do much better then that now.

Skyhigh

Timing is everything
 

Had I been able to get hired by a career destination major airline before I was 35 and had a family to think about I could have made it work. However when you have to start over yet again from zero with responsibilities it is a game changer.

I love flying and am the right man for the job however it became difficult to continually make the sacrifices needed to extend the possibility of reaching the majors to only make 60K per year as a FO. Pilot wages have reduced to the point where it is difficult to justify all the risks and sacrifices when there are jobs advertised in the local paper to work at the dump for 48K. No commuting, no college education, and no flight training.

The path to the airlines has become a war of attrition. If you can not transition to a good job while you are still young enough to absorb the sacrifices you will get pushed out. It does not mean that we were not right for the job just that the cost to getting there is becoming to high for people with responsibilities.

Skyhigh

Skyhigh, I commend you on your foresight and initiative. Thanks, also, for answering my question. I have been in aviation for 36 years, and it is nothing like what it was when I was green and google eyed to get an airline job when I first started. Two years ago I was hired at RAH at the young age of 54 for FO. Boy, was I disillusioned when I saw what was happening, and for the money they were paying to fly a $15mil jet. I have my own business, pays the bills, am home every night, and I still fly and instruct on my own schedule. Good luck to you!

You are exactly right. Sully said exactly this before Congress. But nobody cares. People only care about who has the lowest fare to Omahangeles.

The really sad part is...you're exactly the kind of person that our profession needs if it is to ever rebound. And now you're gone.

Carl

Thanks
 

I hope to return one day but the job market has to come to me. I am not going to chase it anymore.

Skyhigh

I hate to say this, but I don't think our profesion will ever rebound... Flight schools are spitting out commercial pilot pilots like crazy... the message I'm getting from airlines and some flight departments is 'If you don't want to fly this airplane for this amount of money, one of these guys will', and there are thousands waiting in line.....

There is no easy fix... a young guy will do anything to fly a jet, (we were ALL there once)

If only more people shared this opinion, maybe aviation jobs would actually pay money. I laugh at many of your posts, but for this, I commend you on making the right choice.

Thanks
 

Thanks,

Skyhigh

very interesting times for pilots: kids, mortgages, cars, retirement, etc.. they are all demanding but just liking your job will not satisfy these things..liking your job as a pilot is just a benefit and this does not make it right to bid down a very techinical and highly responsible job to the lowest bidder. All of you who prepared and made flying your second job are a great example...If you can make a living on flying as your first and can do well $$ GOD has smile upon you and dont ever forget it.