Are you managing this plane or just doing contract flying?

These SERIOUSLY cant be the type of questions you are going to ask!?

:confused:

We are looking at a citation II so the International travel will be minimal.

As for the question they were in Jest to the 2 partners comment regard our salary and a regional pilots starting pay.

Thank you for the comments, please keep replying as the more information i get the better i can formulate the response and the better prepared I will be to negociate.

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30-35K would be ok..... From each partner.... which is a heck of a deal.... for each partner!!!

Sorry to tell you this but a Citation 2 with 5 owners is going to be nothing less than Sucks!! With 1 plane and 5 owners no one is going to be happy. The only way to make it 1/2 way tolerable for the pilots is to have a minimum of 3 pilots, all typed, and run a 2 week on, 1 week off schedule. 1st week on you are the co-capt, 2nd week on the capt, 3rd week off. 2 full crews would be best with a week on, week off schedule.

I speak from experience. I did this single pilot in a Cheyenne 3 with three owners for 85K starting. After about six months that amount was no longer enough. Assume that each owner is going to think its only about him and doesnt want to hear why the plane isnt available even when one of the other owners is using it. Same goes with Maintenance.... what do you mean the plane is going to be down for the next 2 weeks??.... why??... I havent used it for a month and now I cant???.... What the hell am I paying you guys 35K to do??

The list of crap goes on and on. Good luck. Do your best to set it up right in the beginning and by all means train the owners right from the start.

fbp

Managing an airplane for a good owner can be a great experience and lead to a lifestyle few pilots will get to enjoy. Managing an airplane for a bad owner will be downright miserable. If they don't understand why you'd be worth more than $35k managing their airplane, then I'm going to assume they've never owned a plane before or go they through crews like crazy.

Ask for a budget upfront for crew salaries, training, hangar, cleaning supplies, aircraft stock, chart/nav subscriptions, flight planning services etc...

If they haven't thought of that stuff yet, which it sounds like they haven't, tell them you'll prepare a budget for them to review. Just make sure you get paid for you time.

If those owners aren't made to understand why their flight crews are worth fair compensation (that they themselves would no doubt demand), they'll be spending a HELL of a lot more than $30-35k per year in training because that department will be a revolving door.

Very true, I wonder if they are aware of the cost of the type ratings they will be buying!

I wil take it and give them a great big thanks if things remain out of the realm of reality!

Great advice in here, and it seems like you have a general grasp of it all.

The going rate for a small cabin class jet aircraft should not be less than $55k a year. That's with no other duties (other than the standard Jepps updates and the occational wipe down) . Average, I would say is $65-85/year for a jet captain. Copilot pay varies depending on his experience level and what training was involved. Bringing a low time pilot up with "0" turbine experience might deserve something as low as $35k a year if you are coming in with almost no other marketable experience, and very low if any turbine time. If you are going to be a Citation Captain... and fly for $35k a year.. It should just be a part-time, fly 100-200 hours a year job (at most), with "0" additional duties.

A full time turboprop Captain pay is at least $45k... average is closer to $55k, so you can add $10k for the jet. (My buddy is flying a single engine, PC-12 turboprop, and getting $65k, with no extra duties). What did they do for you.. did they bring you up from a 250 hour nobody?? If not, I would ask for at least $50-$55k to fly a Citation.. and that's CHEAP for them!!! A self managing, small jet captain should earn $70-$85k a year, depending on how big the company pockets are. Don't let them hold training costs over you either as part of negotiating salary. Training pilots is part of owning a bigger airplane. It's part of doing business. If you have the type already.. you can demand $60k+, if not, $50-55k is low enough. Don't help lower the market value of a pilot.

Another thing that was brought up here... you REALLY need to spell out a scope of responsibility. Contracts go both ways. Spell out flight hours per week, month, year.. and what extra pay is involved when those hours go over. Another way to do it is to write a ops manual that covers crew rest, weather mins, MEL items, etc.. that all parties involved sign off on (all pages). Then have the contract say.. "work rules in accordance with OPS manual". Flying part 91 is much different than 135. You don't have as many FARs protecting you, or as close of FAA oversight as I'm sure you know. This is a big deal. Knowing what is a reasonable expectation on both sides is key. It prevents them from taking advantage of your obvious hungry and ambitious nature. If you walk into a couple flight departments around the airport.. they will tell you what you need to know, and you will see the spectrum.

One thing you can do is write into the contract that you'll fly for $35k, but only for the first 200 hours.. then have the contract spell out that you get an additional say..... $135/ flight hour above that... (at $135/hr, each 100 hrs is an additional $13,500/yr) Also, tell them that if they want to pay commuter wages, they should just fly on the commuter. A commuter captain starts at $55k/year, and goes up to $120k+ Good luck

Dont let them do this either---


I had an interview last year (during my laid-off time) where the owner of the aircraft only flew 150-200 hours a year, but required the pilots to always be on call. He felt that because he flew so little, he could pay a lot less.

He said to me in the interview "I wish I flew more, that would drive up your market value". I said excuse me, my what? He said again "your market value".

I said, "with all due respect sir, you require me to be available to you 24/7, so that is my market value. It is up to you if you want to use me, but if I have to be available all the time, then that is my market value- not how much I fly. I get paid to be available, not to fly."

went with another job that understood that :cool:

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the pointers.

This will all be a new experience for me, but that being said, I am not completely new to business. I have benefit of age (somewhat since I am almost 36) to guide me with my past experiences as a foundation. I have been flying (mostly instructing) for 15 years. I took about 6 years off while pursing a different career. Turns out I really wasn't able to get the flying out of my blood.

I will be PIC on this plane because I was the one able to get insured (and not by much with 2100TT and a bit over 300 multi). My friend has about 900 TT and 379 multi and he has the contacts with the potential employer. This leaves me replaceable if i fight too much. I am willing to work for the lower end of the pay scale (for the given equipment C550) since i am not bringing a ton of jet experience and the insurance will be higher due to our times. Both pilots will be PIC typed, but i think I will have to babysit for some time before my friend is really able to safely fly. I don't think there will be benefits offered so that will drive my asking price up a bit. If my magic number is accepted, i will fly for a year for that #. If it turns out to be a hostile environment or they are unwilling to adjust compensation for the flying required, I will take my time and type else where.

I am at an age where I really just want to fall into a career and make a fair living. But, I am also too old to be taken advantage of for more than that first year.

Anyone that has any further advice please continue to post it. I am making a list of all the suggestions and my friend and I will get together and come up with a fair asking price.

Thanks!