CL-604 tips
 

Hi,

I am scheduled for a CL-604 initial at Flight Safety in JAN, I think it will probably be in Wilmington(?) (Near PHL). If anybody has any tips or advice it will be appreciated!

Yeah, stay at the Hilton Christiana, they have a pretty good happy hour.

Also - allow lots of extra time to drive - the traffic lights in Wilmington are F'n absurd.

Have fun!

Sorry I don't have any 604 advice, but remember there's no sales tax in Delaware. The Christiana mall is right there and has a nice selection of stores!

no CL604 advice here, but congrats, really good type to have...

Don't know what your background is, but If you go into the sim with a firm grasp on the automation, you're in good shape. If you've never flown anything that complex, read up on the automation, sometimes that poses more problems than the aircraft's systems.

good luck

I currently fly the CRJ200, so I think the systems should be similar.
Looking for some technical advice, how Flight Safety does things VS the airlines

Its very laid back, dont worry about preparing ahead of time.

You will have plenty of time to learn it all at a pretty relaxed pace....in fact, you will likely be bored at initial.

FSI - start 15 mins late, get coffee, 10 mins of review, break, 25 mins of new material, break, etc, etc..

You will get a copy of their checklists and flows to review. Sim wont start until a week or so after you get there.

Might wanna call ahead and get a copy of their Client Guide/sim profiles if you don't have them already. Good luck

FSI does everything better than the airlines with the exception of the f'in useless & non-pertinent war stories ground instructors tell that make every course 2-7 days longer than it should be. Its VERY low-stress and even lower threat - with MUCH better coffee.

Also, NowCorporate is 100% right about the traffic lights in Wilmington - never seen so many on a single stretch of road and definitely never seen so many so out of sync.

Call the training center and have them email you the study guide, other than that, try to keep from getting too drunk during initial because you will NOT need to study like you probably did in your regional airline training program.

The bigger question is...how did an airline guy get a corporate job? I thought all us airline guys were whiny trouble makers who get typed and then bolt!

Congrats on the new job.

The 604 will be pretty easy if you've been flying the CRJ. I went through Bombardier training in Dallas about 4 months ago and they had a guy come through with 10 years in the CRJ so they cut the course from 19 days down to 10. If you can get your hands on the systems training manual before you go it would probably benefit you. From my understanding the CRJ systems are very similar except for the fuel. The 604 carries 20,000lbs of gas and has a tail tank and 2 saddle tanks in the back which dont require any pilot intervention to manage unless something goes very wrong. Its missing the fuel and pneumatic pages from the EICAS that the CRJ has as well. Not sure if you guys had Precision Plus at the airline or were approved for VNAV but its pretty cool to be able to do it in the 604. I flew the jungle jet and the Honeywell Primus 1000 cant hold a candle to this Collins system.

The airplane is pretty straight forward with only a few oddities. The first is the strange nose low approach angle which should be pretty familiar to you. Hard to get used to if you've flown any other swept wing jet though. The other is the V1 cuts. The airplane really wants to depart the side of the runway unless you use "A LOT" of aileron to back up your rudder inputs. Kick a$$ a/c otherwise cant wait for our 605!

They make you produce proof that you've resigned your number from the airline and then put you through 14 days of intense training on how to deal with people again :D

To add on to this thread, does anybody have any cool spots to check out in Dallas, good bars, restaurants etc. Goin down in Jan for a 604 type at Bombardier/Simuflite. Also any big difference between Flight Safety and the previous mentioned establishment? Thx.

One word.

Bonedaddy's.


You will not need to know anything else.:cool:

Yeah I suppose since you are there you should check out Bonedaddys. Its like the southwestern version of Hooters. Most of the girls there are 2 steps away from the stripper pole (not sayin its bad thing :) but there are a few smokin hot ones there. Depending on where you are staying theres a few places you can check out without driving all the way into Dallas. The Embassy suites by outdoor world in Grapevine is great. They have an amazing breakfast every morning thats included in the Bombardier rate plus they have a free happy hour for guests in the evenings from 5-7pm I think. Downtown Grapevine has 3 or 4 cool little restaurants on the main strip.

If you don't go anywhere else for BBQ while you are there go to "Hard 8". Be prepared to over eat - its the best bbq i've ever had. Myself and several of my class mates ate there about 6 times over the course of training.

As far as the better training facility I believe thats a matter of opinion and personal experience. My company wont give FS money ever again. They have given them a recurrent every couple of years and FS continues to disappoint I guess. Ive done a type at Simuflight and Bombardier (completely unaffiliated even though they share the same complex) and I did my airline training at the FS in Houston for the EMB-145 - so far Bombardier has been the best. Plus its nice to get training directly from the manufacturer IMO.

We hired four CRJ pilots and all checked out in 605s without problems. The systems are similar, as I understand it ( didn't fly the CRJ), the plane is short couples, o it does react quickly to pitch and yaw inputs, roll, not so much. V1 cuts require near full rudder and some aileron. Performance is all done in the FMS, manual numbers are for engine out work. Business jet training will be less rigid on things like checklist responses, radio calls than the airline, once you show that you can tune and talk with competence. Get a good handle on VNAV, you will use it a lot, it'll make your life easier and simpler once you get it.. Don't get too hung up on the auto throttles, if you are learning they might be more of a complication than a help. YMMV.

The Embassy Suites mentioned is good, but the Hilton Southlake has better shopping at DFW. Flight Safety ILM isn't has much fun, the Hilton is probably the best, but there is a Marriott Courtyard if you need Marriott points.

The plane is great to fly, it is no fighter, but performs better than the CRJ 200 by a bunch. I've done KBDL to Budapest, PANC to Khavarovsk, non-stop. You'll have to stay on the track system crossing the ocean, but that is not a problem. Cruise at M.80 all the time, except when going farther than 3,500 nm, then you might need to slow to M.77.

It is a good plane, bulletproof, but then there is the Global.

GF

The question is why would anyone want to leave a major for a corporate job? I have spent the last 15 years trying to get to the majors, I have seen corporate go to crap. I want out!!!

I left a legacy carrier to go to "THE STREAM!!" :)

Now that I am out of "THE STREAM", I refuse to go to an airline again.


Majors are regionals now with bigger planes. Not pleasant at all, and everyone complains complains complains (not to say they aren't top notch professionals... just top notch professionals that have a lot to say about things!)... just like at the regionals. Not to mention the pay is garbage now, no matter what airline you go to. To make what I have made on average in the past 5 years in corp at a major/legacy airline, I would have to be there 20 years! :(

Trust me... larger planes do not equal larger paychecks.

Quite right, Spike. I did airlines and never meet a happy airline pilot--complain, complain, that's all. Much more fun in the AF or Corp. We leave well on the road, time off in places like HKG, WAW, Berlin. Lots of fun! Happy crews

GF

The great thing about corp is that when your job goes to crap, you pack up and take your experience to a better job....not the bottom of the list.

Jobs change when companies/management change. Why stay if it has gone to crap?

Having done both, I'd say the Airlines have nothing on a good Corporate Job. Much better quality of life on the road and less stress while at home. I'll never go back.

Second the Bonedaddys idea. There's tons of places to eat with good shopping. I like downtown Grapevine and like hitting more of the local places. Great food, fun.
As far as ILM, not too much, but if you have a car, Baltimore, DC and Philly close by for a change.

All of my friends that left coporate to go to various airlines like JB and Delta all love it and say the wouldn't come back unless they had to. I guess the "grass is always greener". I plane to go to the majors as fast as I can. 15 years of the corporate game playing really sucks. If it's not the people you fly for it is the spineless pilots I have flown with. (not all but it only takes a couple of really bad ones to turn one sour). At least the majors have a union to protect pilots from one another. I worked at BEX for 2 years and yes the money sucked but I never had a target on my back either.

I agree with TheDude but completely understand your post. I used to work for a Corporate flight department that had a very bad Chief Pilot who resolved crewmember disputes by pitting them against each other. It was hell working in that environment.

Probably TheDude works for a flight department like I do, professional and well managed. I can say we all get along and work as a team. It is a healthy work environment. I would bet if you worked in one of our flight departments, you would have a different outlook.

I do hope you, actually all of you find a position in whatever capacity that you can honestly say you love going to work like I do.

K

If you really fly a G450 and have such a shiatty working environment that you're willing to make $30-50k your probationary year and sit reserve in some shiathole hub city, why not take your talents (and your STREAM type rating) elsewhere, to another operation that's not toxic to work in?

When a department flying that size equipment starts having a lot of pilot attrition, typically SOMEBODY in the corporate office notices it...

Again, I left a legacy job to go to the stream... got laid off from the stream, and then got a job as chief pilot flying a stream... then started my own management company, and have had my share of non-professionals on both sides of the coin.

I can tell you that your idea of major pilots is partially correct... however, there are still a-hole pilots-- I think you would find that anywhere you went. I was the chairman of the contract enforcement committee when I was at the regionals, and I can tell you that the Unions are designed to protect *everyone*-- not just the "good guys". Pilots would get fired, and we would have an internal discussion on every reason why that particular pilot should NEVER be in the air again... but the Union *HAS* to fight for the pilot by law, so there is no self-policing within the union. There are always professional standards committees, but I have found those to be worthless-- and they have no teeth. Trust me on this, there are good ones and bad ones anywhere you go. I could tell you *lots* of stories from my airline days!

I agree with everyone that says there are much better departments out there! Some are ultra-professional with great people. I have seen many nightmare departments.. and *nightmare* management companies (which is why I started my own)... I have seen cowboy crap in corporate that would blow your mind (and seen guys get walking papers because of it), but I have also seen the same things with airlines-- granted most flights in the airlines have someone on board (even if it is just a couple of flight attendants), whereas corp does a lot more ferry flights in which a cowboy pilot feels more freedom to f around (cat's away, mice play mentality)... but that doesn't mean they are NOT in the airlines as well!!

Trust me on this-- find a better corp operator and get out of your current job. Flying one leg to an overnight, sitting for a couple of days, and one leg home is a lot better than flying 4 legs a day, getting 9 hrs rest, then flying 4 more legs the next day, for 4 days straight, and getting paid 50k/yr (which is Delta! CAL I think pays 27k/yr to their new-hires!). Flying a 737 is cool... but the aircraft you are currently flying is only as big as the screen in front of you when you are sitting in the cockpit.

I have a friend who's wife is a 19 year FO with United on the 75/76, making 90k/yr. 19 years for 90k... not this sucker! :)

Sorry for the rambling. Ps- i did not proofread, so apologies in advance.

-spike:cool:

And even if they don't notice (some dont...) Boiler is right...go shopping! Departments change. All it takes is one spineless manager and the whole place changes. The better talent leaves (aside from nearly retired and scared guys) and things can go downhill fast. You can choose to wait it out or look for better.

A friend of mine found out his Gulfstream is being sold a few weeks ago. Within a week he had 3-4 interviews lined up on the same equipment and pay, all local. The job market is not great, but its vastly different for local, well qualified, well connected people than it is for marginally qualified strangers.

Im sure much depends on your location and network, but theres no reason to stay at a shiathole job, life's too short.

That is a travesty. I know a guy on the A320 with united who has been there 12 or 13 years and is a junior reserve FO not clearing six figures either. Probably not what they had in mind when they went to "a major".

Spike,

If she is still in the right seat of the 757 and only making 90K, that is all by choice. The min guarantee on that seat at 12 year pay is around 93K so she might be dropping stuff so she's only flying 5 days a month. With her seniority, she can hold 757 Capt which has a base pay about 40K higher.

It doesn't quite tell the whole story. I'm not defending the payscale. I know its pathetic.

Yep, it is by choice... so that is *her choice*.. but she says if she went to capt slot, she would hold a garbage schedule.


So yes, you are definitely correct that it is her choice... and you are still correct that the payscale is still pathetic! :)

-spike

United has plenty of those part-time employees. If you are only working 8 or 9 days per month...maybe the pay isn't bad.

Ha! yeah.. cant blame them, can you!?



I'll hesitate to tell you my avg days off per month and salary... :rolleyes:

-spike