Logging time with a SOE
#1
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 115
Logging time with a SOE
I'm assuming that since I'm flying left seat while I'm flying out the 25 hours with an SOE for my new type rating I can log the time as PIC. Is that correct?
If so....how does the SOE log his?
If so....how does the SOE log his?
#3
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 115
I'm newly typed in the King Air 300 (single pilot aircraft). I have a few hundred hours of single engine turbin but not multi turbin or type time to meet 61.159; therefore, I have a limitation of flying with another typed pilot (an SOE) in the right seat for my first 25 hours before I can have the limitation removed.
Question:
During those first 25 hours am I logging PIC from the left seat and what is the SOE logging? SIC?
Question:
During those first 25 hours am I logging PIC from the left seat and what is the SOE logging? SIC?
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 259
The person in the right seat is not the SOE. SOE stands for "Supervised Operating Experience", which is simply the event you are subject to. I would say that you cannot log this as PIC based upon 61.64(4) which is the SOE rule as pasted below, unless you are logging it as sole manipulator. You are not the actual PIC though, as the regulation clearly states.
In blue, you can see your limitation should clearly state that you may not act as Pilot in Command until meeting the requirements in red, which is the Supervised Operating Experience (SOE) with a current and qualified person who is the PIC. You must fly from the normal PIC seat (Left in most cases) and the PIC must attest to the legs in your logbook.
(4) If the applicant does not meet the requirements of paragraph (a)(2) or (a)(3) of this section as appropriate, then—
(i) The applicant must complete the following tasks on the practical test in the airplane of the category, class, and type of airplane rating (if a type rating is applicable) for which the airplane rating applies: preflight inspection, normal takeoff, normal instrument landing system approach, missed approach, and normal landing; or
(ii) The applicant's pilot certificate will be issued with a limitation that states:
“The [name the category, class, and type of airplane rating (if a type rating is applicable)] is subject to additional pilot in command limitations,” and the applicant is restricted from serving as pilot in command in that category, class, and type of airplane rating (if a type rating is applicable).
(iii) The limitation described under paragraph (a)(4)(ii) of this section may be removed from the applicant's pilot certificate if the applicant—
(A) Logs 25 hours of flight time in the category and class of airplane for the rating sought, and if a type rating is being sought, the flight time must be performed in the same type of airplane for the type rating sought;
(B) Performs 25 hours of flight time under the direct observation of the pilot in command who holds the appropriate airplane category, class, and type rating, without limitations, in the same category, class, and type of airplane rating, if a type rating is applicable;
(C) Logs each flight and the pilot in command who observed the flight attests to each flight;
(D) Obtains the flight time while in the pilot in command seat of the appropriate airplane category, class, and type, if a type rating is appropriate; and
(E) Has an Examiner review the pilot logbook and endorse that logbook, attesting to compliance with the required supervised operating experience.
In blue, you can see your limitation should clearly state that you may not act as Pilot in Command until meeting the requirements in red, which is the Supervised Operating Experience (SOE) with a current and qualified person who is the PIC. You must fly from the normal PIC seat (Left in most cases) and the PIC must attest to the legs in your logbook.
(4) If the applicant does not meet the requirements of paragraph (a)(2) or (a)(3) of this section as appropriate, then—
(i) The applicant must complete the following tasks on the practical test in the airplane of the category, class, and type of airplane rating (if a type rating is applicable) for which the airplane rating applies: preflight inspection, normal takeoff, normal instrument landing system approach, missed approach, and normal landing; or
(ii) The applicant's pilot certificate will be issued with a limitation that states:
“The [name the category, class, and type of airplane rating (if a type rating is applicable)] is subject to additional pilot in command limitations,” and the applicant is restricted from serving as pilot in command in that category, class, and type of airplane rating (if a type rating is applicable).
(iii) The limitation described under paragraph (a)(4)(ii) of this section may be removed from the applicant's pilot certificate if the applicant—
(A) Logs 25 hours of flight time in the category and class of airplane for the rating sought, and if a type rating is being sought, the flight time must be performed in the same type of airplane for the type rating sought;
(B) Performs 25 hours of flight time under the direct observation of the pilot in command who holds the appropriate airplane category, class, and type rating, without limitations, in the same category, class, and type of airplane rating, if a type rating is applicable;
(C) Logs each flight and the pilot in command who observed the flight attests to each flight;
(D) Obtains the flight time while in the pilot in command seat of the appropriate airplane category, class, and type, if a type rating is appropriate; and
(E) Has an Examiner review the pilot logbook and endorse that logbook, attesting to compliance with the required supervised operating experience.
#6
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 7
I am soon to be in this same situation. How does the other type rated captain "attest" to you flying PIC for the 25 hr limitation? Does he sign your logbook, or just write a letter that you carry with you when you take your logbook to a FSDO after the 25 hrs have been complete?
#8
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 2
Yes both pilots can log PIC. You can log PIC as the Pilot Flying (PF) under the FAR 1 definition of PIC (Sole manipulator of the controls). Same as you logged PIC and Dual Recieved when you occupy the left seat during training, (Unless you were getting your multi-engine rating at the same time). The qualified PIC observing you during your SOE can log PIC even if that person is the Pilot not Flying (PNF), because they are the one that is responsible for the flight. Same as the definitions of PIC in FAR 135 and 121. The observing PIC must be current and qualified in that type in order to qualify though. Or if that person is a current Certified Flight Instructor (CFIIME), they can also log PIC and dual given. The pilot observing should also sign each flight with their certificate #, espescially if you are using multiple PIC's, until you have the flight time required to remove it. An FAA inspector or a DPE qualified in that aircraft can remove the SOE once your hours are met. Also it is a good idea to contact your local FSDO since they may require more than is necessary since each one can be different
#9
Point of order: the FAR 1 definition of PIC is the person with final authority and responsible for the flight, FAR 61 definition includes sole manipulator of the controls.
#10
I am soon to be in this same situation. How does the other type rated captain "attest" to you flying PIC for the 25 hr limitation? Does he sign your logbook, or just write a letter that you carry with you when you take your logbook to a FSDO after the 25 hrs have been complete?
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MrBigAir
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11-06-2008 08:00 AM