Type Rating Required
#11
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Pilot
Posts: 2,625
Virtually every corporate aircraft job posting right now lists "Type Rating Required" for the aircraft they are hiring. Is it possible that there is enough turnover in the industry that flight departments are not paying for any initial type ratings for new hires? This is incredibly frustrating as that I am at a operation with only one type. How do you move up in the industry when everyone is playing musical chairs? Someone throw me a bone here with a good, I sponsored the applicant type rating story...
#12
The point here is that just because a person may not meet all the job requirements, they should apply anyway. One doesn't really know what is really important to an employer until you interview.
#13
Often times, "insurance minimums" is a candidate screening excuse, and a BS one at that.
The aviation insurance market has been and continues to be soft, and anybody who has an ounce of negotiating power (and a half-ass broker) should be able to get just about anybody that has basic minimal qualifications (say, ATP, 2000tt, 500 multi) qualified as SIC on any jet this side of a long range/large cabin type, and as PIC with not much more experience than that.
The aviation insurance market has been and continues to be soft, and anybody who has an ounce of negotiating power (and a half-ass broker) should be able to get just about anybody that has basic minimal qualifications (say, ATP, 2000tt, 500 multi) qualified as SIC on any jet this side of a long range/large cabin type, and as PIC with not much more experience than that.
#15
I'm not arguing for sub par wages or schedule abuse, but entry level jobs are entry level jobs.
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 423
There is nothing wrong with "entry level"
It does not mean you get treated any differently than other pilots in the operation, other than pay and other benefits that grow w seniority/experience.
We would start an "entry level" SIC type guy at 110-130K (well below Captain pay in type) and they would go to school and get typed. The problem is 90 days later when FSI calls them a PIC and they have 30 hours in the plane and they really think they can be out there making 160-200K as other PICs do.
Lots of entitlement out there today...another reason to avoid the "hire the type rating" mentality. Id rather hire a good guy with some Citation time than an entitled guy with a Global/GV/Falcon rating.
It does not mean you get treated any differently than other pilots in the operation, other than pay and other benefits that grow w seniority/experience.
We would start an "entry level" SIC type guy at 110-130K (well below Captain pay in type) and they would go to school and get typed. The problem is 90 days later when FSI calls them a PIC and they have 30 hours in the plane and they really think they can be out there making 160-200K as other PICs do.
Lots of entitlement out there today...another reason to avoid the "hire the type rating" mentality. Id rather hire a good guy with some Citation time than an entitled guy with a Global/GV/Falcon rating.
#17
Originally Posted by NowCorporate
The problem is 90 days later when FSI calls them a PIC and they have 30 hours in the plane and they really think they can be out there making 160-200K as other PICs do.
The difference between then and now is, surprise surprise - experience. I lacked it then, and I've got more now.
"Entry level position" or not, driving the airplane is generally the easy part of the job - its all the other stuff associated with the a gig (including familiarity with the specific operation, type of flying done and the airframe) and the attitude of a given pilot that really sets "entry level" apart from "experienced".
I have been asked if it would be difficult for me to go from a young light cabin Chief Pilot to an SIC on a much larger airframe - answer was NO, it would not, and I'm not sure I was believed.
A man's gotta know his limitations...but he's also got to be a good blend of confident yet humble. You gotta know what you don't know, and have a desire to learn it from those who can teach that which you lack.
IMO
/thread hijack
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 423
IMO this is actually the IDEAL new-hire, especially in a large department.
You can get anyone a rating and fill a seat, but finding motivation and desire to lead is not as easy. Always hire leaders.
This is the part people are missing when they say "type rating required" Its very rare to find the rating, experience, and the above mentality. If someone has it all, I question why they are shopping for a job. Most guys I know with all those boxes checked are not unemployed, and certainly don't want an "entry level" type job.
Back on thread, YES apply to the jobs that say rating required/preferred even if you don't have it. But keep in mind applying online is not how you get a job. Its not how you hire a good person. Most of the time, applying is an HR requirement after the fact. They have to know you from rec's or from years of networking.
Like others here, I never met the minimum requirements for the jobs I have gotten...so go for it. Call people, talk to people, ask for 5 mins of their time..and follow up frequently. I have seen this work over and over again.
Good Luck!
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Lear 55 CA
Posts: 244
There is nothing wrong with "entry level"
It does not mean you get treated any differently than other pilots in the operation, other than pay and other benefits that grow w seniority/experience.
We would start an "entry level" SIC type guy at 110-130K (well below Captain pay in type) and they would go to school and get typed. The problem is 90 days later when FSI calls them a PIC and they have 30 hours in the plane and they really think they can be out there making 160-200K as other PICs do.
Lots of entitlement out there today...another reason to avoid the "hire the type rating" mentality. Id rather hire a good guy with some Citation time than an entitled guy with a Global/GV/Falcon rating.
It does not mean you get treated any differently than other pilots in the operation, other than pay and other benefits that grow w seniority/experience.
We would start an "entry level" SIC type guy at 110-130K (well below Captain pay in type) and they would go to school and get typed. The problem is 90 days later when FSI calls them a PIC and they have 30 hours in the plane and they really think they can be out there making 160-200K as other PICs do.
Lots of entitlement out there today...another reason to avoid the "hire the type rating" mentality. Id rather hire a good guy with some Citation time than an entitled guy with a Global/GV/Falcon rating.
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 423
Metro NY area. 120K start does not go as far as many other places, and it should be higher...but its not as bad as many think. We happen to be starting an experienced guy in August and he will be at 150K. Thats more of a liveable wage IMO.
Last edited by NowCorporate; 06-10-2013 at 08:31 AM.
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