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-   -   Pondering 121 Again... (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/corporate/76315-pondering-121-again.html)

Fourpaw 09-17-2013 02:51 PM


Originally Posted by kalymnos (Post 1485628)
so you can leave on your days off and travel where you like far from the airplane, not available for trips AND not be on vacation?? hmmm not buying it... (if so you are that 5% I was referring too)
do you realize that captain for Delta Airelite makes 50K and what travel management pays? I will take ALL the global's and Gulfstreams pays and average them against ALL , just hawkers , out there and what do you think you will come up with..? The pay in the Corp industry will never compete with airlines... and as you write your re-buttle please remember to put LUV in and DL in your thoughts..
my buds are working at luv for 14 -15 days and in the 120's as fo's!


I prefer not to but I can name 10 companies off hand that are in the fortune 1000 blah blah .. that do not allow hard days off without vaca and are on call almost 24/7 ...and pay is marginal..IMHO between 80-100,

I'm sorry but this is 100% correct. I am tied to my airplane like a rope. The only hard time I get off is vacation and even then its a gamble. I can be expected to fly my boss and his clients daily for weeks in a row without a day off. Granted I fly a single, but I'll still do 65k this year.

Every other corporate pilot I know has the same thing going on. They have to trade with each other on trips for time off.

USMCFLYR 09-17-2013 03:05 PM

Marginal pay is $80-100k?
Sounds good to me.

Red Forman 09-18-2013 03:57 PM


Originally Posted by kalymnos (Post 1485628)
so you can leave on your days off and travel where you like far from the airplane, not available for trips AND not be on vacation?? hmmm not buying it... (if so you are that 5% I was referring too)
do you realize that captain for Delta Airelite makes 50K and what travel management pays? I will take ALL the global's and Gulfstreams pays and average them against ALL , just hawkers , out there and what do you think you will come up with..? The pay in the Corp industry will never compete with airlines... and as you write your re-buttle please remember to put LUV in and DL in your thoughts..
my buds are working at luv for 14 -15 days and in the 120's as fo's!


I prefer not to but I can name 10 companies off hand that are in the fortune 1000 blah blah .. that do not allow hard days off without vaca and are on call almost 24/7 ...and pay is marginal..IMHO between 80-100,

Yes, if I want a day off I can have it with no strings attached. If I want or need more than a few days, I'll take vacation with no strings attached. Sounds like a lot of the people you know don't work for very reputable companies. The other people I know in this business can say the same thing for the companies that they work for.

Red Forman 09-18-2013 04:00 PM


Originally Posted by Fourpaw (Post 1485685)
I'm sorry but this is 100% correct. I am tied to my airplane like a rope. The only hard time I get off is vacation and even then its a gamble. I can be expected to fly my boss and his clients daily for weeks in a row without a day off. Granted I fly a single, but I'll still do 65k this year.

Every other corporate pilot I know has the same thing going on. They have to trade with each other on trips for time off.

Maybe it's 100% correct for you, but not for many people who work for a company that actually cares about and takes care of their employees.

galaxy flyer 09-18-2013 04:26 PM


Originally Posted by Fourpaw (Post 1485685)
I'm sorry but this is 100% correct. I am tied to my airplane like a rope. The only hard time I get off is vacation and even then its a gamble. I can be expected to fly my boss and his clients daily for weeks in a row without a day off. Granted I fly a single, but I'll still do 65k this year.

Every other corporate pilot I know has the same thing going on. They have to trade with each other on trips for time off.

Here's a clue--99% of American workers must take vacation to go away on vacation. I get 3 weeks of vacation AND 7 Hard Days Off per month, name me other NON-Flying jobs that offer that deal. 99% of workers would love it.

Oh, and I fly a corporate jet for 3+ times the median salary, have a pension plus an expense account. Sometimes, one needs to count one's blessings.

GF

galaxy flyer 09-18-2013 05:32 PM

Adding another thing--I'm never, ever bored at our flying. Different destination every time, most new. Last trip was to Moscow and someplace in Siberia. Trip before was to Brazil, my next one not yet decided, but probably Africa. There are other things in life than money and I have plenty of it. Not to say, more is better.

GF

kalymnos 09-19-2013 03:34 AM

Galaxy.... thats a great job!! you are the 5% I was talking about.. but it is not usual or ordinary and you are correct reputable jobs are hard to find.. but DL, Luv, Fedx, UPS, are much better than the average Hawkerstuck (define: one who is stuck in a miserable Hawker job) which are most of the positions.

Bonk 09-19-2013 06:18 AM

The pay/QOL for most major airline pilots is better than the pay/QOL of most corporate pilots.

The bottom third of corporate gigs are equivalent to regional FO jobs. They suck and you're just paying your dues.

The middle third are okay. Pay is about like RJ captain wages but the QOL varies widely. Most are probably pager slaves and most probably have a significant amount of extracurricular duties required. Some have an okay QOL with set schedules and more than minimum staffing.

The upper third make at least major airline FO pay and have all the other bennies like 401K, decent vacation, etc.

At the top end of the spectrum are those few souls like GF that have really great corporate jobs. The pay, QOL and bennies are terrific. Job security is probably as good as it can be for a flying job.

The decision most of us have to make is what can we reasonably expect to achieve. I want GF's job but the odds are against me. There's just too many candidates all trying to get one of those 5%er jobs. To a large extent it doesn't matter how talented or motivated I am. Only 5% of corporate pilots will ever get those jobs.

OTOH, any major airline pilot has a job that's equal to the top third of corporate jobs. Your mileage will vary of course, but in general I think that's a reasonable statement. That's not a condemnation of corporate flying at all. It's just an observation that it's easier to get a decent level of pay/QOL via the 121 world than the 91/135 world. Both have quality employment opportunities but there's just more of them at the major airlines.

Hawker Driver 09-19-2013 06:53 AM

Happy for GF............

I'm in the other 95% crowd.:(

galaxy flyer 09-19-2013 10:21 AM

Bonk has it approximately correct, overall. But, Mark Twain said, "I thrive on habits that might kill you" and that is never more true than in aviation. I've meet guys flying a Citation or Lear out of some small town for a one-plane company. Happier, they couldn't be. They have a fine standard of living, decent money,benefits and security, live their hometown, kids go to the same schools as they and their wives did, worked at the company for many years. I also know plenty of major guys that are, and have been, miserable. US Airways guys that left EAL in '89 and had terrible careers there, for example. AA guys are now approaching 20 years as F/Os making less than even halfway decent 91 jobs. I work with several guys that are recalled and couldn't afford to return to AA as F/Os.

Aviation careers are all about compromises that work for you; finding the right job by any means and being happy.

Pick your poison,

GF


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