NoSidNoStar

Thank you for stating the obvious, and for reading my previous post.
Your idea of happiness is different then the one for the guy next to you. Subjective. Who cares? We are talking money here. Numbers. Brutal mathematical truth. Objective.

BoilerUP

Judging solely by A320 hourly rates and guarantees on APC...nope.

Interesting premise.

In the interest of not omitting "important informations", it is probably wise to consider that United has a 16% defined contribution (B-plan) while Jetblue has only 8% 401k matching. It is also probably worth considering the cost & quality of health care options.

One has to not only read various pilot CBAs in order to get the "big picture" view of them...they have to understand exactly what they're reading as well, since every airline has its own unique workrules which have a huge impact on both total compensation and schedule.

There are 91 jobs out there that offer pilots a combination of excellent/low cost health care, five-figure annual bonuses, profit sharing, a high 401k match or defined contribution plan and even some that still have defined benefit pensions. That is to say nothing of quality of life intangibles which, like it or not, people do in fact attach a dollar value to (I certainly have).

Location of employment, choosing your own hotels, having a rental car, eating wherever you want, putting an expenses on a credit card vs. perdiem, bringing golf clubs/fishing pole/family/etc. with you on a trip, etc...all considerations.

I don't think it is a stretch to say that the TYPICAL major airline job offers a higher level of total compensation than the TYPICAL corporate job...but one has to consider the pro AND con of the airline seniority system as well as time/value of money of the paycut almost every corporate pilot would take going to a 121 job AND intangibles of employment in making a decision which is best for them.

In the end...different folks for different strokes and if you are unhappy with your situation, CHANGE IT.

NowCorporate

CEOs?....no,pilots...as in Chief Pilots and Aviation Directors. Those numbers are the norm today at the better jobs. You also won't find an experienced PIC on a Global/Gulfstream etc for under 150K today.

If you're going to throw around top airline Captain numbers, do the same on the corporate side.

Its OK to be biased toward whatever path you choose, just don't think for a second that "most corporate pilots won't brake 150k" Thats a very myopic view.

Only advice I ever give people is take the path you prefer and shoot for the top either way, get there ASAP. I'd never stay in this profession otherwise (airline or corporate)

biigD

Most corporate pilots aren't flying large cabin jets. Just like most airline pilots aren't at a legacy carrier.

NoSidNoStar

Those numbers are NOT the norm today (250-320k for Managers) Not according to NBAA, nor to the Professional Pilot Salary survey. As a matter of fact they are not reported at all in neither of the two.
Those numbers ARE very common for Major airlines captains.

NowCorporate

NBAA & Pro Pilot magazine surveys?...c'mon now...

Airhoss

First off skippy lets get something perfectly clear. I am not omitting ANYTHING! Secondly I have no dog in this fight. That should be crystal clear to anybody and everybody even you and your thick skull.

No it is not. However you don't have the slightest clue how either contract translates to actual W2 and benefits. You keep picking out the .001% far right end of the bell curve as your examples.

I guess that would depend on the corporate F/D now wouldn't it? On top of the 16% B plan contributiuon we recieve company health and dental but you do pay some amount for it. For my family of four we pay just about $500 a month. We get long term disability insurance. Also not free it's about $120 per month. We also get a discounted life insurance also obviously not free.

It depends on the trip some are almost 72 hours some are less. But you get MPG (M I N I M U M P A Y G U A R A N T E E) for each calendar day you are on the road. Might be 24 full hours it might be less it simply depends on the trip. For instance.

A three day trip might depart on day 1 at 06:30 and return on day three at 23:30. that would credit for 5 MPG or a minimum of 15 hours. If you flew more than 15 hours you'd get paid for the actual flight time.

Another three day might depart at 22:00 on day one and return at 08:00 on day three. That trip would ALSO pay MPG of 5 hours per day or actual higher flight time.

My actual experience includes flying for a corporate F/D and three airlines. How about your actual experience? What does it include?

Does that clear things up for you, or are you still confused, angry and unreceptive?

NoSidNoStar

Again, QOL issues. Of course you can attach a dollar value to anything, but the value you gave to some things, is different than the value somebody else would give to the same things.
SAFETY, Choice of bases, choice of days off, having free travel, going vacation where you want, when you want, SAFETY etc etc... See my point? (Did I mention SAFETY?)
We can't agree on what is best for everyone, everybody is different. We can't even agree on the definition of time off. And I have absolutely no intention to get trapped in that conversation, as arguing matter of personal taste is an exercise of STUPIDITY.

We can certainly agree on numbers.
50% (or more) of major airlines pilots (captains) make more than the top tear of corporate pilots. The other 50% are just waiting to upgrade.
It is absolutely not true that corporate pilots brake 300k (as somebody else stated) and if of one of them do that, then we should compare him to the top tear airline senior wide body check airmen in company like FedEx, Ups, or Delta. Those guys brake 500k.
It is true many corporate pilots would take an initial pay cut to go to a major, but that would only last for a couple of years. If it takes more than that, it is only because it is too late in their career to make the change. Too bad. I am not saying they should be miserable, I know low middle class people happier than millionaires. Again, this is not my point, I am only try to compare quantitative data.
If the scope of this thread is to address the youngsters, and they are smart enough to understand that QOL is subjective, they know what they want, and the meaning of "ceteris paribus" in econimics, we should give the the information with transparency. We should not mislead them to think that earning potentials in corporate are the same, or even similar as compare to the potentials in the majors.

I know that many will read my post as the point of view of somebody only interested in money. Or somebody unhappy with his corporate experience. But I am just pointing at what are the numbers. I have passed on better paying jobs in the past for what I consider a good QOL. I have enjoyed choosing the hotel, having a corporate credit card instead of perdiem, dining in fine restaurants, and brining people over for long trips. But I also noticed how safer is the typical major airline operation compare to an international corporate department.
But what is good for me, is not necessarily good for another, therefore it use useless to analyze it.

NoSidNoStar

You are insulting me. Too bad for you, it only shows who you are.
You definitely have a dog in the fight, since you are a UAL pilot.
You still are failing to make clear what additional percentage you get at UAL on top of your W2. Bottom line. Numbers. It should not be too hard. Try it. Can you? Yes or no? Numbers or Bs?
You brag you have corporate experience, so tell me which corporate department gives 16% contribution, with zero pilot contribution?

The jetBlue pilot I mentioned was very helpful, and clear about it. 28% (after all perks counted). You keep running in circles.
I have two airlines, few charters, some cargo, and few corporate experiences. But that means NOTHING. As it means nothing what experience you have. Numbers don't care who states them,as long as their are reported correctly and using the same parameters.
Just state a bottom line. If you can't be simple and to the point, don't try to insult me, just shut up.

Airhoss

I can see where this is going....

SKREW YOU TROLL BOY!!

And welcome to my ignore list...