Gjn290

I am totally aware of that. I am just stating for NoSidNoStar that it isn't always what he's making it out to be.

viperdriver180

Part 91 here. No holidays ever. Basically shut down 15 Dec-2 Jan.

NoSidNoStar

I am happy were I am, read about our gig in some others of my posts. I am actually one of the few guys that love to be away for the holidays and make it a vacation, I mostly chose to stay with the plane rather then airline back, and I fly in my better half, so we make it a vacation paid by the owner.
That said, I will be happier in the specific major I am after.
Your dad must be the luckiest corporate pilot, but I can guarantee that after 40 years, he would be home for the holidays in a major too.
And the first 10 years of his corporate career you were not around, so, you don't know. May be it wasn't that good for him. May be he was in 135 for few years. (You brought up the 10 years for the majors, so only fair to compare the time)
As far as the remuneration package, well I don't know if there are any 40 year seniority captains in any legacy, but if there are, they would clear 450k/yr very easily without effort. (Refer to other threads for this from guys that are working there). I seriously doubt your dad makes that, and if he does, he is the only corporate pilot I ever heard to make that. A very small sample population to base somebody's choice and give advice upon.
But I am ready to bet that is double what your dad makes, or more.
Oh yeah, and 15 days per month of work? You think that is good? Plus who knows how many other days on call, another 5 days?
A 40 year seniority captain in a legacy would not work more than 10 days.So, double the money, half the days, let me guess...
4 time the productivity?
And finally, I will say this again and again, safety. No match, not even close. As a matter of fact, I really don't even want to think about it too much, how more exposed we are in corporate to every sort of risk. But I guess your father is the safest pilot in the world, statistics do not apply to him.

sealandair

I think I should have been more specific in the kind of job I had in mind. I was talking about an effing "good" corporate job like Gjn290s dad has. So I guess that could be run as Part 91 OR Part 135 depending on the company or individual in question. Naturally, an on-demand 135 passenger op is probably going to make its pilots work on holidays, no? At least the peon-class pilots. They're in business to put straggler's butts in seats. And there are a lot of stragglers and butts that don't think to get moving until the afternoon of December 24. But last I checked, cargo didn't need to be sitting around a dinner table on the last Thursday of each month. On the other hand, a human heart on ice might need to be sitting on an operating table like 5 minutes ago, and it really can't wait for Ned to hang his stocking by the chimney with care. So for the sake of my newly-found moment of clarity, let's toss on-demand, cargo, and med flights into the furnace and press the LIGHT button.

A HA! So what's left? Rich individuals and companies that are presumably owned by individuals wealthier than me...who have airplanes. And let's assume they are really cool airplanes, because a wealthy company or individual that flies nothing but a C-172 is definitely not cool in my book. So you know... could be a Malibu, could be a Hawker, could be a C-5 Galaxy.

I'll make one more refinement to my inquiry, for those of you who are still reading. Assuming that there aren't that many a super-wealthy families or individuals who a) travel on the whim enough to require a pilot on their staff, and b) dumped the notion of learning to fly themselves so that they wouldn't have to invite the pilot to their caviar parties, that leaves...

Corporate flight departments. The kind where a few executives get on board and fly to L.A. to go meet some other executives and presumably look at financial charts and graphs and talk about big ideas. Pilots that fly for THIS type of operation. Do they have to fly on Christmas, for crying out loud?

Sorry I took so long to be specific. So sue me.

Gjn290

An airline captain with 40 years seniority would clear 450K easily? Don't most airline pay scales cap out at year 12? Are you making this up or can you provide firm evidence of this. I would like to encourage anyone to speak up if they know of this. And no, my father makes no where near this, nor do 99.999999% of pilots out there. Did I mention he has a pension, 401K, and receives annual bonuses (much like profit sharing) and a company stock plan?

Do I think 15 days off a month is good? Yes, you don't?. You also must have missed where I said he also never has to carry his phone around with him when he's not scheduled. In layman terms, that means he's off not on call but OFF OFF. That must be a new concept I suppose, flying corporate and not being on call.

Four times the productivity? What difference does that make when one flies corporate and is paid a salary and does not participate in a monthly bid?

Corporate is exposed to more challenges than airlines, i.e. flying to any one of thousands of airports in the world that they have never been into before while being responsible for their own flight planning and fuel calculations. That doesn't mean that it degrades safety. Not everyone (if any) in corporate has an anti-safety mentality, do you? Why are you so dead set on believing that? I have no doubt that 121 has a higher safety standard due in large part that the public is flying on those aircraft.

In your last statement it feels as though you are implying that in corporate aviation you are doomed, is that correct?

You sound pretty confident that the grass is greener on the other side, I wish you luck.

P.S. Lots of their pilots are former 121, legacy and regional.

Gjn290

It's not a yes or no question. The problem is some corporations do not allow the execs, usually only to top two or three, to travel commercial even if it's personal for security reasons. In those cases when they want to travel to Hawaii for the Holidays the crew may get stuck there. Some of these places will allow spouses to travel with or airline the pilots home. A good corporate department will do whatever it takes to keep their pilots happy. It can be a better career than the airline, regardless of what NoSidNoStar says, but the good corporate jobs are few and far in-between.

Galaxy Flyer, RI830, BoilerUp, and Red Forman are a few of the users that were 121 who went corporate and can provide some very relevant and valid points from both sides.

sealandair

But the 40-year seniority 121 immortal god is likewise a "very small sample population to base somebody's choice on." I'm going to even make a bold, albeit less educated guess that NO 121 pilot makes 450 large, and NO corporate pilot makes that either...unless you assume that they both sit on their companies' boards and have invested in 10% of the company's shares.

You weren't talking about marine harbor pilots, were you? I came from a maritime background, and boat captains salaries blow airplane pilot salaries out of the water...err...sky... whatever. Not that I ever made it that far, I'm just saying. A bar pilot (guides in the big supertankers to unfamiliar/foreign crews once they've reached shore) can make half a million...easy.

sealandair

I gathered this, and I thank you for your input as well.

NoSidNoStar

Read the other threads as far as the remuneration packages go.
10 years captains in majors clear 300k all day long.
That as stated by them, and the math is not hard to verify.
The guys mentioned above come from regionals, those compare to 135 jobs, not to corporate, they are time building jobs with very few exceptions, go and read the other threads, about majors and see the answers in there.
Nobody that worked in a major left voluntarily, and when they did, they admit was the best job they ever had. Go and read for yourself.
Somebody from Delta posted then even an FO can clear 300k there, but of course not without an effort.
Now, the 40 years seniority captains must be a very small sample, if even exist, but nevertheless remember that about 50% of the pilots in a major are captains. The 40 year was only brought in to compare the 40 year corporate.
The 4 times productivity has nothing to do with his father not having to bid.
It is just money made per day of working, comparing the two. Now compare to those captains, the top half of the corporate jobs in term of pay. Not even close. And the amount of pilots in majors compare to the pilots in corporate.
Go ahead and see where you have more chances to have better QOL, money, retirement.
And about safety, statistics are there for you to read. Amounts of crashes per flight hour. GA business jets vs 121. Knock yourself out. Nothing to do with the safety attitude of the pilots, but to the risk exposures, I hope it is not too hard to understand the difference.
But no, the kid' s father has the better job, he only has schedule flights, never goes to the airport when does not fly, he makes more money, and he is the safest pilot in the sky. I guess the dozen of thousands of major airline captains should try to be like him, too bad there is only one position like that, and he took it.

NoSidNoStar

P.S. a disclaimer, I had too a regional job, some time ago, and I stated this before. That kind of jobs are like 135 jobs (I had a couple of those too).
Not career destinations, not targets, but merely necessary stops.
Again, go ask who had a major airline job if they left voluntarily.