Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Corporate
Corporate departments' take on 121 pilots? >

Corporate departments' take on 121 pilots?

Notices
Corporate Corporate operators

Corporate departments' take on 121 pilots?

Old 08-22-2014, 11:22 PM
  #31  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 880
Default

Originally Posted by NoSidNoStar View Post
Read the other threads as far as the remuneration packages go.
10 years captains in majors clear 300k all day long.
That as stated by them, and the math is not hard to verify.
The guys mentioned above come from regionals, those compare to 135 jobs, not to corporate, they are time building jobs with very few exceptions, go and read the other threads, about majors and see the answers in there.
Nobody that worked in a major left voluntarily, and when they did, they admit was the best job they ever had. Go and read for yourself.
Somebody from Delta posted then even an FO can clear 300k there, but of course not without an effort.
Now, the 40 years seniority captains must be a very small sample, if even exist, but nevertheless remember that about 50% of the pilots in a major are captains. The 40 year was only brought in to compare the 40 year corporate.
The 4 times productivity has nothing to do with his father not having to bid.
It is just money made per day of working, comparing the two. Now compare to those captains, the top half of the corporate jobs in term of pay. Not even close. And the amount of pilots in majors compare to the pilots in corporate.
Go ahead and see where you have more chances to have better QOL, money, retirement.
And about safety, statistics are there for you to read. Amounts of crashes per flight hour. GA business jets vs 121. Knock yourself out. Nothing to do with the safety attitude of the pilots, but to the risk exposures, I hope it is not too hard to understand the difference.
But no, the kid' s father has the best job out there, he only has schedule flights, never goes to the airport when does not fly, he makes more money, and he is the safest pilot in the sky. I guess the dozen of thousands of major airline captains should try to be like him, too bad there is only one position like that, and he took it.
Dude, do you have a chip on your shoulder?

When the airline pilots are discussing there compensation they are divulging their total compensation package -- hourly rates, company 401K contribution, profit sharing, and benefits. FO's are not making 300K just off of hourly rates alone, if they are period, and if they are even making anywhere near that kind of money QOL is probably not the greatest and they are the most senior wide body FO at the airline. I've seen the threads you are talking about. I also disagree with 10 year captains making north of 300K, unless you mean they have been a captain for 10 years after sitting as a FO for another 10 years prior, therefore sitting atop the pay scale, with that 300K being the total compensation package.

That's a very bold statement you made about no one leaving a major ever. Do you know every pilot out there?

Airlines are a much more safe bet since one knows what to expect at them. Corporate on the other hand not so much. Contrary to what you believe there are corporate jobs that rival that of a legacy job.

Airline pilots are hourly, corporate are salary(usually). The per day average is a useless comparison. However, if you want to compare pointless information then corporate pilots are getting paid even on their days off!

When on earth did I say anything about my Father being the safest pilot in the sky? That is something that you have completely made up. When did I say he has the best job in the world and that everyone should try to be like him? Oh, that's right, I didn't. I simply put information out there to show what a good corporate job could be like and I'm sorry that has offended you.

P.S. Did you know if you separated corporate aviation from the weekend warriors of the GA world the statistics would radically change?

Last edited by Gjn290; 08-22-2014 at 11:45 PM.
Gjn290 is offline  
Old 08-22-2014, 11:26 PM
  #32  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
Default

RI830 must be laughing at my lack of self-restraint...
I could not resist, I failed, the APC addition made me into a post junkie
NoSidNoStar is offline  
Old 08-23-2014, 12:15 AM
  #33  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
Default

Originally Posted by Gjn290 View Post
Dude, do you have a chip on your shoulder?

When the airline pilots are discussing there compensation they are diverging their total compensation package -- hourly rates, company 401K contribution, profit sharing, and benefits. FO's are not making 300K just off of hourly rates alone, if they are period, and if they are even making anywhere near that kind of money QOL is probably not the greatest and they are the most senior wide body FO at the airline. I've seen the threads you are talking about. I also disagree with 10 year captains making north of 300K, unless you mean they have been a captain for 10 years after sitting as a FO for another 10 years prior, therefore sitting atop the pay scale, with that 300K being the total compensation package.

That's a very bold statement you made about no one leaving a major ever. Do you know every pilot out there?

Airlines are a much more safe bet since one knows what to expect at them. Corporate on the other hand not so much. Contrary to what you believe there are corporate jobs that rival that of a legacy job.

Airline pilots are hourly, corporate are salary(usually). The per day average is a useless comparison. However, if you want to compare pointless information then corporate pilots are getting paid even on their days off!

When on earth did I say anything about my Father being the safest pilot in the sky? That is something that you have completely made up. When did I say he has the best job in the world and that everyone should try to be like him? Oh, that's right, I didn't. I simply put information out there to show what a good corporate job could be like and I'm sorry that has offended you.

P.S. Did you know if you separated corporate aviation from the weekend warriors of the GA world the statistics would radically change?
Yes, of course, total remuneration packages, nevertheless money in their pocket. No comparison. You can disagree with the 300k, but that is what they have posted, and the math is in their favor. If you don't believe them, tell them they lie.

I never heard anybody leaving a major voluntarily to go fly GA.
I am sure there must be some very rare exceptions. I am also sure they are regretting it. Regionals don't count. And still, I almost regret having left mine. Wonder why a lot of corporate pilots want to go to the majors, and not so much the other way around?

I don't know of many corporate jobs that rival the jobs in the legacies, unless you want to compare the very scarce positions as flight departments managers. The percentage of those compare to the total numbers of corporate pilots is negligible; now compare that to the 50% captains ratio in the majors. And even then, the legacy captains still make more, and have more days off.
Managers have no days off, even in the weekends, they must be reachable by phone, at the very minimum.

Yes. In corporate we get a salary. In airlines hourly rates, but also minimum guarantee, so also they can be paid without working. When the check gets in, both pilots had days off. And more of these in the major airlines then in the corporates. 15 days off is not a great line for a major airline pilot, yet in corporate is very rare, as most have much less, if any.

You did not say your dad is the safest pilot. I did. And I was intentionally sarcastic. Same for the rest about him.

I specifically stated the difference in safety between GA business jets and 121 is enormous, of course we don't want to count the weekend warriors. it would be ridiculous to bring that to the table. I did not, and I find funny you have to specify it.

Sorry if all this facts offend you. Sorry if you have to feel that, every time somebody talks about the differences between majors and corporate jobs, you take it as an attack to your job.
If it bothers you so much, may be you should self evaluate.
NoSidNoStar is offline  
Old 08-23-2014, 12:23 AM
  #34  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 880
Default

Originally Posted by NoSidNoStar View Post
Yes, of course, total remuneration packages, nevertheless money in their pocket. No comparison. You can disagree with the 300k, but that is what they have posted, and the math is in their favor. If you don't believe them, tell them they lie.

I never heard anybody leaving a major voluntarily to go fly GA.
I am sure there must be some very rare exceptions. I am also sure they are regretting it. Regionals don't count. And still, I almost regret having left mine. Wonder why a lot of corporate pilots want to go to the majors, and not so much the other way around?

I don't know of many corporate jobs that rival the jobs in the legacies, unless you want to compare the very scarce positions as flight departments managers. The percentage of those compare to the total numbers of corporate pilots is negligible; now compare that to the 50% captains ratio in the majors. And even then, the legacy captains still make more, and have more days off.
Managers have no days off, even in the weekends, they must be reachable by phone, at the very minimum.

Yes. In corporate we get a salary. In airlines hourly rates, but also minimum guarantee, so also they can be paid without working. When the check gets in, both pilots had days off. And more of these in the major airlines then in the corporates. 15 days off is not a great line for a major airline pilot, yet in corporate is very rare, as most have much less, if any.

You did not say your dad is the safest pilot. I did. And I was intentionally sarcastic. Same for the rest about him.

I specifically stated the difference in safety between GA business jets and 121 is enormous, of course we don't want to count the weekend warriors. it would be ridiculous to bring that to the table. I did not, and I find funny you have to specify it.

Sorry if all this facts offend you. Sorry if you have to feel that, every time somebody talks about the differences between majors and corporate jobs, you take it as an attack to your job.
If it bothers you so much, may be you should self evaluate.
It doesn't bother me. I put in my .02 cents and you seem to have it out for those who disagree with you. I have no dog in this fight. I've always been 135 and am making the jump to 121 next month. I'm just not as one-sided as you. Almost every post you've made since you joined knocks corporate.

You're right you did make the comparison between GA business jets. My apologies.

Why do you feel the need to input sarcasm and make things up? It discredits you more than anything. Good luck with your job search.
Gjn290 is offline  
Old 08-23-2014, 12:33 AM
  #35  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
Default

Originally Posted by sealandair View Post
I'm going to even make a bold, albeit less educated guess that NO 121 pilot makes 450 large, and NO corporate pilot makes that either...unless you assume that they both sit on their companies' boards and have invested in 10% of the company's .
If you include the total remunaration packages, 121 legacies captains make that, FedEx and UPS captains too. Not the first 15 years in the company, but they will eventually do. No need to sit on any board or own 10%. They don't need to play political games, as long as they are proficient to company standards, and can hold a medical, they will get there by seniority.
Corporate pilots don't do that. Never.
Now, if you want to hear that even if you are older, and therefore you are better off in corporate, and anyway that is the best sector of the industry...if you really want to hear it...
...no sorry, I can't tell you that.
NoSidNoStar is offline  
Old 08-23-2014, 12:52 AM
  #36  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
Default

Originally Posted by Gjn290 View Post
It doesn't bother me. I put in my .02 cents and you seem to have it out for those who disagree with you. I have no dog in this fight. I've always been 135 and am making the jump to 121 next month. I'm just not as one-sided as you. Almost every post you've made since you joined knocks corporate.

You're right you did make the comparison between GA business jets. My apologies.

Why do you feel the need to input sarcasm and make things up? It discredits you more than anything. Good luck with your job search.
You also seem to have it out with who disagree with you.
Maybe that is why we are still here arguing, we both are like that.

My posts are not intended to knock corporate jobs.
I am only stating the facts, funny you feel knocked by that.
And I do it for people that are deciding where to go.

You are going 121, so why not making clear to the guys trying to decide where you think is best? It's misleading. Of course there are pro and cons on both sides, but if somebody ask you for directions, which way would you point them?

I answered sarcasm with sarcasm: "sorry for it not being as grim as you describe it". Remember? Why would you be sorry for that? Isn't that sarcastic?
You accused me of thinking of corporate pilots as anti-safety types. You made that up. I simply stated the safety is statistically in favor of 121, by far. What did I made up? The remuneration of the legacy captains? I am simply reporting what they are stating in other threads. You think they lied? Everybody that does not agree with you is a lier?

Last edited by NoSidNoStar; 08-23-2014 at 12:55 AM. Reason: Spelling
NoSidNoStar is offline  
Old 08-23-2014, 05:18 AM
  #37  
Gets Weekends Off
 
7Xdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Captian, G450, G550 (Ret.)
Posts: 165
Default

Originally Posted by NoSidNoStar View Post
Don't listen to this. This guy has just not been in the industry long enough. In 91 you will have to be fly or be on call during the holidays. Like I said, there are exceptions. When we fly on the holidays, and the owner stays, we have the option of staying and make it a small vacation, or airline back home.
But eventually in 121 you will hold seniority and be off. Not even scrambling to look for a contract pilot willing to fly the holidays.
You will, be off, really off, the phone will not be required to answer.
If Grum starts debating, refer to our previous debates.
Dont listen to this. NoSidNoStar has just not been in the industry long enough.

I have been in Corporate for 39 1/2 years and can count on one hand having to work on a major holiday.

What a maroon!
7Xdriver is offline  
Old 08-23-2014, 06:18 AM
  #38  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
Default

Originally Posted by 7Xdriver View Post
Dont listen to this. NoSidNoStar has just not been in the industry long enough.

I have been in Corporate for 39 1/2 years and can count on one hand having to work on a major holiday.

What a maroon!
So you are the exception to the rule. Congratulations. I have been in the industry half of your time, and my experience is totally different.
In an major airline, it would not have been the luck of the draw to dictate our holiday schedule, but our seniority.
You honestly want to suggest to somebody entering the industry that he/she will have a better career potential in corporate rather then a major? You honestly think you had accumulated more wealth and hard days off in 40 years of corporate than what you would have in legacy? Because that what the discussion boils down to, and if you do, you are delusional. QOL is subjective, but monetary gains and quantity of hard days off are not, as math is not an opinion.
Again, anybody interested, just go read the other threads where majors and legacies pilot write their experiences.

And what's up with the names calling, Kevin?
Really? An old man your age with such a lack of class? Pathetic.
NoSidNoStar is offline  
Old 08-23-2014, 06:29 AM
  #39  
Gets Weekends Off
 
7Xdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Captian, G450, G550 (Ret.)
Posts: 165
Default

Originally Posted by NoSidNoStar View Post
........And what's up with the names calling, Kevin?
Really? An old man your age with such a lack of class? Pathetic.
Pot calling the kettle.....

Lighten up, just giving you a little of what you give others.
7Xdriver is offline  
Old 08-23-2014, 07:30 AM
  #40  
Gets Weekends Off
 
galaxy flyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,168
Default

I've been at my corporate pilot position for ten years, worked maybe a quarter of the holidays and average 120-140 days away per year--pretty close to the average airline guy holding a line. Pay is MD-88 DL based on guarantee, no O/T, I have a pension and medical fully paid and now 4 weeks vacation.

But, that's not the point, the point is not everyone will finish their careers was T7 captains without ever being furloughed, merged, or medical'd out. I found 121 as tiring or worse than corporates, I found it "deadly" boring and repetitive. Pax have zero respect for crews which is certainly not the case here. A friend just accepted a position with the question, "give me a number" which was promptly accepted. At an age of most 121, major or regional, guys are junior F/Os, he's in the 200K+ money.

GF
galaxy flyer is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jsled
United
232
07-24-2016 09:34 AM
RPC Unity
Union Talk
149
06-30-2011 08:39 PM
SF340guy
Union Talk
92
06-12-2011 06:30 PM
John Pennekamp
Major
28
02-13-2007 01:08 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices