China is responsible, now what ?
 

Too much talk , too much posturing , who all has been bought out by the ******* Chinese and staying quiet �,
our way of life forever shattered .......... What can be done ? I believe it’s time to BOYCOTT all matters Chinese and anything related
to China ........ We have worthless and meaningless protests all around our country, but no protests against China ��

if you are serious, nuke them until they glow. It’s the only way to be sure. If you are rational, learn from your mistakes and keep essential supply lines domestic even if foreign is cheaper.

China is the problem
 

Fully agree , there is much that needs to be done to effectively handle the Chinese government, the Chinese are still too involved with our way of life , it is outrageous that it is now 7 months after the COVID 19 virus 🦠 and we still are in the back pockets of China 🇨🇳

It is really China's fault or that of a world bent on endless consumerism and economic expansion? Many of the recent bugs & viruses can be directly traced to human encroachment on wild places and the need for so much meat consumption. World meat consumption has jumped 260% in the last half century. Viruses jumping species is a byproduct of all this progress. Actions have consequences, so we might need to ask ourselves how much is enough?

I'm no fan of the Chinese government, but we made the decision to go into business with them so we need to look in the mirror for some of this. Sure, the initial reaction or inaction could be worth some sanctions but our own government royally screwed up our response as well.

I certainly wouldn't complain about bringing some manufacturing back in house. But we live in a global economy now and the world is only getting smaller. Looking at nearly 10 billion people by 2050, gotta find smarter ways to balance nature and us, let alone getting along with each other.

Viruses were jumping across species over 4000 years ago. Smallpox likely started as a camel virus in North Africa.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4379562/


Yellow fever was a primate virus in Africa 3000 years ago... and still is.

Dengue originated in monkeys about 800 years ago.

Measles started out as a Cattle disease, diverging from rinderpest between the 11th and 12th century.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...413928208title


The ancestral Varicella-Zoster Virus (VZV), that causes chicken pox and shingles, co-evolved with apes, hominids and humans. Along with VZV, its closest alphaherpesvirus relatives herpes simplex 1 (HSV1, ‘cold sores’) and herpes simplex 2 (HSV2, genital herpes) have a common ancestor that is approximately 120 million years old. If the age estimates for the herpes phylogenetic tree are accurate, the evolution of the alphaherpesviruses (VZV, HSV1, HSV2) coincides with the split of Africa from the supercontinent Godwanaland.

Viruses jumping species has been going on for a LONG time. Modern things like - well, airliners, might facilitate the spread somewhat, but it doesn’t cause it. And we’ve been omnivores since before Neanderthal days, so I don’t think you are going to get the world to suddenly go vegan.

Of course it has been going on for a long time, but recent pushes deeper into the jungles & forests are accelerating it. An article from 2017...

"The world is now in uncharted territorywhen it comes to infectious diseases. We're facing a whole new era. Over the past century, the number of new infectious diseases cropping up each year has nearly quadrupled. The number of outbreaks per year has more than tripled."

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...re-on-the-rise

I love me some bacon, among many other tasty meats but recognize the impact it has. Point is, our lifestyles the world over are creating issues we either didn't foresee or frankly just don't care enough to do anything about. One day that could all very seriously bite us much harder than previous outbreaks combined.

Genetic analysis of the SARS2 virus, isolates Wuhan being the location of the common ancestor, so the virus originated there in the fall of 2019. There isn't an animal native or consumed for that matter, anywhere close to Wuhan that can be the host for this virus. For example, a tree shrew, that's found a thousand miles away from Wuhan is a very possible candidate. I think the question to ask, is how far scientists should be allowed to go in the study of these viruses, if safety can be compromised like it has in Wuhan China?

Actually, local bats carry the disease - as do pangolins which are smuggled in for their supposed medicinal properties.

https://i.ibb.co/m4dSNht/83103-FCD-D...FFFB6-DB00.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/gTQCgQW/BA3120-CC-C...-FD5463632.jpg

Neither of those animals could have provided the mutation of this virus.

Studies continue to point to a natural jump, exactly how & when may never be known sadly. There is little, if any evidence to support other claims. Otherwise mere speculation.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...nalysis-nature

To your last point, studying pathogens has always been a dangerous task. There are many examples of things going wrong around the world and even here in the States. What we need are treaties to cover proper handling, classification, what should be studied and better sharing of data. Thankfully science does a decent job of not being beholden to politics, but we need to let our politics assist science instead of fighting against it.

With all due deference to goats and soda- nonsense.

This has ALWAYS been happening and most of those are self limiting. We just have a whole lot more Microbiology grad students out there looking. Most of these aren’t knew, and they are generally self-limiting from a epidemic standpoint. Camp Bullis near San Antonio Tx had a rickettsial infection back in WWII, with several hundred young healthy recruits seriously sickened and a handful killed. The etiology agent was identified and named, R. Bullisiae..it has never been seen since.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15605930/

Then there’s Legionairres Disease, and Hantavirus, and many others. For that matter, Yosemite Park will occasionally get human cases of plague from the Golden Mantled Ground Squirrels (the State rodent, basically a rat in a fur coat) that inhabits the place.

https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/plague.htm

But much of the Southwest has had enzootic plague for a couple hundred years now. These diseases have always been there and there have been frequent non-sustained crossover infections, although humans are generally a dead end host for all of these. (Think swimmer’s itch, which is actually an avian version of schizosomiasis). We just haven’t had this many microbiology grad students before.

That’s why some quit to become pilots...

That's exactly why many governments around the world funded the Wuhan Virology institute, China allows practices that are banned in other countries for that very reason. You do not think it's a little odd, that an institution, that was built for the specific purpose to study animal to human transmission of Coronaviruses, had an outbreak nearby? Isn't it likely that the institute would have the host animal?

Again, not arguing diseases have been around a long time, that's simply evolution doing its thing. But you seem to be making my point for me to a degree - more people looking for disease whether on purpose or inadvertently could (and have) trigger more outbreaks.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14727-9

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/22/87596...on-and-disease

China Investigation
 

China coverup, incompetence, and corruption has caused 130,000 American deaths. Why are we not over there conducting a review? Is it because they own us. So we can’t do anything but keep mute and take it. Sad nothing is being done at the source. Just sad. Money is truly everything.

How do we just show up in china and start an investigation?

We don't have jurisdiction any more than they have jurisdiction to conduct investigations here.

It's a diplomatic and political problem.

There’s no investigation needed. All the viruses seem to come out of there. They have more people as well as animals on top of each other. I think only thing you can do is to stop buying Chinese. Although that’s very hard to do now, considering like all the products at Walmart and target are made in China.

The best thing we can do is form some multilateral neutral health organization that looks out for these viruses. Like a UN for public health. We could have some sway by allying with other nations that have mutual interests and also be the largest funder therefore giving the U.S. outsized influence. Maybe that organization could set up a lab in parts of China where these zoological viruses pop up to study these things.

we could call it the world health organization or WHO

And still no one has addressed the nuke-them-until-they-glow option...:p

Complete and total waste of money, they have failed spectacularly at every task they were given.

no true, but ok. what’s your solution? Put a bubble on top of the US?

I have fruit trees that are dying due to an invasive species from China, that bubble sounds kind of nice actually.

so a non answer as to what we should replace the WHO with.

You don't replace them with anything, it's moot as they aren't going anywhere. The US is rightfully backing out, we don't need them, and never did.

so what happens over there stays over there? Like Ebola and whatnot.

The world is small and getting smaller.

what about the UN?

NATO?

That Hydroxychloroquine is messing with your head. American isolationism will only weaken the US and make us irrelevant to the world in the future. We've basically abdicated our leadership position and given the green light to China to assume the role of world super power.

Trump played the "taking his ball and going home" card and the only thing it accomplished was showing the world he can throw a first-class temper tantrum.

The world is not getting smaller. The CDC is fully capable of handling the well being of Americans. In fact, Covid wouldn't even be here if we had listened to Taiwan. However, the WHO silenced their voices, so as to not misalign with China policy.

More and more people, generally same amount of arable land. In fact, a less than a quarter of earth's land areas are truly livable. The planet is effectively getting smaller.

Backing out of the WHO in the middle of a pandemic is straight bonkers. Not the time to play politics and be petty. This new brand of rogue isolationism will lead to China doing as they please and do more harm to our standing on the world stage. Not to mention exacerbate a pandemic and furthering the financial crisis, costing us jobs. By the way, for all the focus on the WHO...

China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 24, 2020

In the end, the WHO like any organization is imperfect but has done some truly great work since its inception. We should seek to improve it, not bail out when the plane is on fire when we haven't even blown the bottles yet.

Well, if they make the necessary reforms, we can join back up.