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mRNA Vaccines

Old 11-14-2020, 09:08 AM
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Default mRNA Vaccines

Looks like the first to the street are going to be messenger RNA based, a relatively new type of vaccine. The tech makes sense. Any smart medical/biotech types in here have any input on the safety of these types of vaccines? Looks like efficacy seems to be there...?
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Old 11-14-2020, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by firefighterplt View Post
Looks like the first to the street are going to be messenger RNA based, a relatively new type of vaccine. The tech makes sense. Any smart medical/biotech types in here have any input on the safety of these types of vaccines? Looks like efficacy seems to be there...?
First of its kind. Like most new drugs and treatments, it’ll take about five and a half years to get five year safety data. No way to rush it. Theory is good, but the first is always a first. Only issue for sure will be a logistics one - super cold storage - but that’s not insurmountable by any means. Duration of immunity may be an issue, but it’s an issue of the coronavirus, not necessarily because of the mRNA process.
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Old 11-14-2020, 10:01 AM
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mRNA technology is (relatively) new, but was rapidly building momentum well before covid.

In previous studies and trials it tended to work well with no unexpected side effects, in both humans and animals.

Some people confuse DNA and RNA. mDNA pharma has at least the potential to cause undesired DNA changes in the host which could be dangerous. mRNA does not, since it doesn't engage with the subject's own DNA. So no reason to think that mRNA has any particular risk of unanticipated side effects.
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Old 11-15-2020, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
mRNA technology is (relatively) new, but was rapidly building momentum well before covid.

In previous studies and trials it tended to work well with no unexpected side effects, in both humans and animals.

So no reason to think that mRNA has any particular risk of unanticipated side effects.

This sounds like pure BS. Having no long term data on side effects that may manifest themselves later on, there is definitely a risk of unanticipated side effects, just like when you put any foreign substance into your body. Unless you have 5, 10, 20 years of data on it, you have no basis on your claim that there is no reason to think that there is a risk. It’s a risk just based on that alone.

Also, pharmaceutical companies have a long history of squashing any bad data that comes out about their products, so it may take even longer than that to know the true damage done by this vaccine. The J&J talcum powder lawsuit is a prime example of that. There are many other examples as well.
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Old 11-15-2020, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Xtreme87 View Post
This sounds like pure BS. Having no long term data on side effects that may manifest themselves later on, there is definitely a risk of unanticipated side effects, just like when you put any foreign substance into your body. Unless you have 5, 10, 20 years of data on it, you have no basis on your claim that there is no reason to think that there is a risk. It’s a risk just based on that alone.

Also, pharmaceutical companies have a long history of squashing any bad data that comes out about their products, so it may take even longer than that to know the true damage done by this vaccine. The J&J talcum powder lawsuit is a prime example of that. There are many other examples as well.
There's absolutely no guarantee that any one person might not have a bad reaction to anything injected, ingested, breathed, or touched. Including water. Yes, you can actually be allergic to water. Biology is complex, and there is a slight but non-zero risk to putting ANYTHING in your body, including food.

But they've been playing with mRNA for about 30 years and haven't seen any ill effects. If you knew anything about biology (you clearly don't) you would understand what RNA does, and does not, do in your body. It is a very precise, targeted biochemical intervention.

But it's certainly a free country, nobody here in the US is going to force you to get a vaccine. If the government tried to mandate that, I'd go to bat for you. Other countries won't be as considerate.

But the good news: we're about to get vast quantities of real-world data on mRNA vaccines. That's actually a good thing because they also have the potential to treat or even vaccinate against cancer (that's actually what scientists have been REALLY interested in doing with mRNA).

The talc powder thing appears to be a masterful case study of ambulance chasers snowing ignorant juries. My wife did the research, because her mom actually died of ovarian cancer, but she concluded it was all BS. No statistically significant data, and the noise that was there appeared to have been relying on very poor science: study participants' memory, after the fact, as to how often and how long they used the product over decades. The better controlled studies found nothing.
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Old 11-15-2020, 07:14 AM
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Obviously, we aren’t going to wait 5, 10, 20 years. I’m likely going to be at the front of the line as an EMS provider, and I’m trying to figure out how safe the tech likely is before I raise my hand.

I know that mRNA tech has been used in cancer meds for a while, but this is its first foray into battling a pathogen. It makes a whole lot of sense—code a string of mRNA, inject it as a more stable form, let it break back down to mRNA, high five with some ribosomes and crap out proteins that will trigger a specific immune response. mRNA doesn’t last long, so it will degrade soon after translation.

I’m not a cellular biology expert, but it seems to me like the issue could be where the stabilized form of mRNA turns back into mRNA in the body? If that goes sideways, and the codons get f’d up, it could maybe result in the wrong/no polypeptide being created?

Just thinking aloud.
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Old 11-15-2020, 10:51 AM
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I'm still going with the AstraZeneca vaccine, never go with the A model of anything.
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mesabah View Post
I'm still going with the AstraZeneca vaccine, never go with the A model of anything.
Any idea how far they are behind the others in terms of timeline?
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Old 11-16-2020, 05:54 AM
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Apparently the Pfizer vaccine has a stronger immune reaction. I wonder if they’ll prioritize Pfizer to the elderly given that they have more trouble getting an immune response.
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Old 11-16-2020, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by firefighterplt View Post
Any idea how far they are behind the others in terms of timeline?
AZ and J&J hoping to report trial results by year-end IIRC.
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