jetlaggy

Merkel says Germany has lost control of coronavirus as country goes into lockdown

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/covid-germany-france-lockdown/2020/10/28/934a5908-193d-11eb-8bda-814ca56e138b_story.html

kaputt

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/27/europ...ntl/index.html

People are not going to tolerate lockdowns again.

jetlaggy

I will let ya know when I get over there.

GeeWizDriver

Wait, I thought we were following the science. From the WHO...

Which now says lockdowns are counterproductive.

Guess not. It’s all the Orange Man’s fault. Even in Europe.

jetlaggy

WHO says.

• Full-scale lockdowns should be a “very, very last resort.”

hopefully we don't get to that point but partial lockdowns will be a way of life for a while. Doesn't really matter who’s fault it is at this point.

germanaviator

Where does the WHO say that?

It's obvious that lock downs are very effective in getting outbreaks back under control in order not to overwhelm health infrastructure.

Havig said that. A full lock-down is not what's happening in Germany starting next week. People still go to work (if they cannot work from home), schools remain open wherever possible, stores remain open and people can leave their homes at any time for no specific reason. Restaurants and bars will be closed during November and so will be cinemas, gyms etc. Restaurants can deliver and offer pick-up.

It's still quite a drastic measure and not everyone is happy. However, it seems like the majority of the population support it. The stated goal is to get things under control before the festive season starts so that there are as few restrictions as possible for families over christmas. That's why they are doing it now in November. The earlier the more effective and the shorter the duration of the restrictions can be.

Story time: A friend of mine is a Ryanair 737 captain based in Frankfurt. He doesn't fly much currently so he is back working in his old job as a paramedic. He says every day they get sent away by hospitals with patients who have a fever as the hospitals are at max capacity for corona patients. That's in the Frankfurt area. I have no reason to doubt him but I did a quick google search because I know that you guys have no reason to believe me or my friend. What he says seems to be true. Google translate it if you wish

https://www.fnp.de/frankfurt/corona-...-90082627.html

https://www.hessenschau.de/gesellsch...ilung-100.html

BobZ

it cant be true. Government run health care turning sick people away from care?

Too bad with single payer thers no brand B hospital to go to. Unless of course you are rich....or a government official.

germanaviator

I'm not saying that Germany has the best system in the world but at least it doesn't have 27.5 million uninsured.

Also, it's not like people don't get treatment. It's just that some hospitals need to send patients to other hospitals. Bad enough, but not yet catastrophic. The partial and temporary lock-down is to ensure it doesn't become catastrophic. The problem is: If it works, and I think it will, some people will say: "See the hospital system was never overwhelmed... It's not that bad".

I guess we will all know more in a few weeks.

GeeWizDriver

https://www.lexingtonchronicle.com/n...ting-lockdowns

Lockdowns ARE counterproductive. A "middle ground" is needed.

The usual suspects will, once again, find a reason to denigrate the source. It's merely one of the first I ran across on a DDG search.

germanaviator

Thanks for the link. Had a quick read and can actually I agree with much of what Dr. Nabarro said, such as this: “The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.” I didn't read in the article that they are counterproductive. But yes, it's possible for them to do more harm than good if used inappropriately.
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Also, I think there are different kinds of lock-downs. The hard-core lockdowns where you are not even allowed to leave your house are really bad. I know as I am currently in quarantine with the family for two weeks. A "lock-down light" where schools stay open and the main aim is to avoid crowds, both in public and in private, are a lot less draconian. Of course they are still terrible for many industries such as travel, hospitality, events, etc. That's why any lock-down needs to be as short as possible.

Having said all that. Lockdowns should be pretty much a last resort, but they should not be ruled out completely, I think.