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Old 11-24-2020, 11:10 AM   #11  
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Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine View Post
Have you never traveled to a country that requires a vaccine? A vaccine passport is pretty common for international travel. Proof of vaccination is not a violation of HIPPA. No company needs a database of health records. They just have to look at your vaccine passport. No different than verifying a service animal or someone's oxygen requirements before they board.

If you don't want to provide that information, then don't get on the plane.
What he said.

If fraud were to become rampant, then they might require database verification, but then there will be an app for that.

A criminal hacking your HIPAA compliant database does not constitute a violation on your part. We already have trillions of health records in databases, how is one more vaccine any different? I can open another browser tab, login, and pull up my entire health record right now.

And if the fed needed to amend HIPAA for some reason they can do that... it's just a law, not an inalienable God given right.
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Old 11-24-2020, 12:17 PM   #12  
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IATA is working on the app...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s?srnd=premium
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Old 11-24-2020, 01:32 PM   #13  
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Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine View Post
Have you never traveled to a country that requires a vaccine? A vaccine passport is pretty common for international travel. Proof of vaccination is not a violation of HIPPA. No company needs a database of health records. They just have to look at your vaccine passport. No different than verifying a service animal or someone's oxygen requirements before they board.

If you don't want to provide that information, then don't get on the plane.
Actually, I was referring to rickairs suggestion that it be made an app. I canít imagine any company wanting the liability of maintaining that database. Requiring the pax to carry their immunization record with them like we did in the military might work, but absent laws to stop it, falsification would be an issue. Itís not like you canít get service/ESA certification online for a few bucks. For that matter, there are sufficient weird health care providers around, particularly in my state where they let naturopaths do anything and even chiropractors and acupuncturists do way too much. I can picture some Ďdoctor of homeopathyí cranking out bogus certifications. Heck, the FBI canít keep up with Medicare fraud, do you think bogus immunizations will be a priority for them?

https://academic.oup.com/jlb/article/4/2/229/3871793

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...rnative-121015


But donít get the idea that Iím anti vaccine just because I believe there will be problems with enforcement, or distribution because Iím not. Iím just hoping these vaccines coming on line provide longer lasting and more effective protection than the veterinary coronavirus vaccines historically have.
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Old 11-24-2020, 01:46 PM   #14  
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Actually, I was referring to rickairs suggestion that it be made an app. I canít imagine any company wanting the liability of maintaining that database. Requiring the pax to carry their immunization record with them like we did in the military might work, but absent laws to stop it, falsification would be an issue. Itís not like you canít get service/ESA certification online for a few bucks. For that matter, there are sufficient weird health care providers around, particularly in my state where they let naturopaths do anything and even chiropractors and acupuncturists do way too much. I can picture some Ďdoctor of homeopathyí cranking out bogus certifications. Heck, the FBI canít keep up with Medicare fraud, do you think bogus immunizations will be a priority for them?

https://academic.oup.com/jlb/article/4/2/229/3871793

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...rnative-121015


But donít get the idea that Iím anti vaccine just because I believe there will be problems with enforcement, or distribution because Iím not. Iím just hoping these vaccines coming on line provide longer lasting and more effective protection than the veterinary coronavirus vaccines historically have.
Vaccinations brought to you by the same clowns who gave us ESAs. Wonderful.
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:04 PM   #15  
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My guess is that the amount of antivaxxers that falsify documents in order to travel internationally will be small enough to not be a major factor. For one, it's going to be simply much easier to just get the damned vaccine. But can you imagine getting caught in a foreign country with falsified documents? Yikes!

Foreign governments will require it and even for the foreign governments that don't require it, the airlines that serve them might. Better plan on getting the vaccine if you're going to travel beyond the borders of the US.
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:04 PM   #16  
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Heck, the FBI canít keep up with Medicare fraud, do you think bogus immunizations will be a priority for them?
Depends.

As long as the Kabuki theater holds up, a little fraud won't hurt anything.

But if covid runs rampant and fraudulently "vaccinated" people are spreading it, there will be a crackdown.

But see the news article above... the plan will be for apps to link to a database for validation, I don't think fake online certs will work in most places which care enough to require vaccination in the first place.
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:11 PM   #17  
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Vaccinations brought to you by the same clowns who gave us ESAs. Wonderful.
Do you mean James C Owens, Deputy General Counsel for the DOT, or the Americans with Disabilities Act?
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Old 11-24-2020, 04:28 PM   #18  
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What he said.

If fraud were to become rampant, then they might require database verification, but then there will be an app for that.

A criminal hacking your HIPAA compliant database does not constitute a violation on your part. We already have trillions of health records in databases, how is one more vaccine any different? I can open another browser tab, login, and pull up my entire health record right now.

And if the fed needed to amend HIPAA for some reason they can do that... it's just a law, not an inalienable God given right.
Which is what I said originally. Requiring a legally supportable accurate database will require changes in state and federal laws and enforcement of those laws. Not impossible, merely difficult.

How difficult?

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Although there are no reliable estimates of fraud in Medicare, in fiscal year 2017 improper payments for Medicare were estimated at about $52 billion. Further, about $1.4 billion was returned to Medicare Trust Funds in fiscal year 2017 as a result of recoveries, fines, and asset forfeitures.Jul 17, 2018

U.S. GAO - Medicare: Actions Needed to Better Manage Fraud ...

That was 2018. Current estimates are $60 billion this year. And Medicare only covers 44 million people.

Anyone who believes it will be easy to maintain an accurate database on a third of a billion people damn sure has never done it. For the world as a whole? 7.8 BILLION people? No way in H€||.
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Old 11-24-2020, 05:45 PM   #19  
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Do you mean James C Owens, Deputy General Counsel for the DOT, or the Americans with Disabilities Act?
No, the various quacks that write out the scripts for ESAa on demand. Those same quacks can write out false vaccination records, too. As to getting caught overseas, no one thinks thatíll happen, if they think of it at all.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:11 PM   #20  
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Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine View Post
Have you never traveled to a country that requires a vaccine? A vaccine passport is pretty common for international travel. Proof of vaccination is not a violation of HIPPA. No company needs a database of health records. They just have to look at your vaccine passport. No different than verifying a service animal or someone's oxygen requirements before they board.

If you don't want to provide that information, then don't get on the plane.
A vaccine passport is not and has not been common for international travel.
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