Vaguely reminiscent of Tuskegee Study
11-27-2020, 03:34 PM
#1
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Vaguely reminiscent of Tuskegee Study
For those not familiar with the Tuskegee Study:
https://www.history.com/news/the-inf...tuskegee-study
Basically, researchers kept a study on the long term effects of untreated syphillis going long after safe and effective treatment became widely available so they could determine untreated outcomes. The subjects were, for the most part, too meant dically unsophisticated to know what was being allowed to happen to them. It is one reason that - to this day - there is considerable vaccination reluctance in the African-American community.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...1Iy?li=BBnb7Kz
The issue is an ethical one. With available antibody testing, those who just got the placebo can find out pretty easily and many (unlike the Tuskegee Study subjects - are medically sophisticated enough to know that other vaccines will soon be approved. The problem (for the scientists) is that if all their placebo recipients bail out they can’t do the research. The problem for the placebo recipients is that they only got the placebo, so efficacy of the vaccine given to then in their study can only be proven ‘over their dead bodies’ so to speak, and in some cases quite literally.
an interesting quandary.
https://www.history.com/news/the-inf...tuskegee-study
Basically, researchers kept a study on the long term effects of untreated syphillis going long after safe and effective treatment became widely available so they could determine untreated outcomes. The subjects were, for the most part, too meant dically unsophisticated to know what was being allowed to happen to them. It is one reason that - to this day - there is considerable vaccination reluctance in the African-American community.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...1Iy?li=BBnb7Kz
The issue is an ethical one. With available antibody testing, those who just got the placebo can find out pretty easily and many (unlike the Tuskegee Study subjects - are medically sophisticated enough to know that other vaccines will soon be approved. The problem (for the scientists) is that if all their placebo recipients bail out they can’t do the research. The problem for the placebo recipients is that they only got the placebo, so efficacy of the vaccine given to then in their study can only be proven ‘over their dead bodies’ so to speak, and in some cases quite literally.
an interesting quandary.
11-27-2020, 04:43 PM
#4
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by Excargodog
For those not familiar with the Tuskegee Study:
https://www.history.com/news/the-inf...tuskegee-study
Basically, researchers kept a study on the long term effects of untreated syphillis going long after safe and effective treatment became widely available so they could determine untreated outcomes. The subjects were, for the most part, too meant dically unsophisticated to know what was being allowed to happen to them. It is one reason that - to this day - there is considerable vaccination reluctance in the African-American community.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...1Iy?li=BBnb7Kz
The issue is an ethical one. With available antibody testing, those who just got the placebo can find out pretty easily and many (unlike the Tuskegee Study subjects - are medically sophisticated enough to know that other vaccines will soon be approved. The problem (for the scientists) is that if all their placebo recipients bail out they can’t do the research. The problem for the placebo recipients is that they only got the placebo, so efficacy of the vaccine given to then in their study can only be proven ‘over their dead bodies’ so to speak, and in some cases quite literally.
an interesting quandary.
https://www.history.com/news/the-inf...tuskegee-study
Basically, researchers kept a study on the long term effects of untreated syphillis going long after safe and effective treatment became widely available so they could determine untreated outcomes. The subjects were, for the most part, too meant dically unsophisticated to know what was being allowed to happen to them. It is one reason that - to this day - there is considerable vaccination reluctance in the African-American community.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...1Iy?li=BBnb7Kz
The issue is an ethical one. With available antibody testing, those who just got the placebo can find out pretty easily and many (unlike the Tuskegee Study subjects - are medically sophisticated enough to know that other vaccines will soon be approved. The problem (for the scientists) is that if all their placebo recipients bail out they can’t do the research. The problem for the placebo recipients is that they only got the placebo, so efficacy of the vaccine given to then in their study can only be proven ‘over their dead bodies’ so to speak, and in some cases quite literally.
an interesting quandary.
But I recall that applying in the case of a specific condition which is afflicting all trial participants, who were enrolled BECAUSE they were afflicted. In that case once it's clearly apparent the treatment works, makes sense to make it available to the placebo group who can benefit.
In the case of covid the entire global population is subject to the same risk, trial participants are not afflicted with anything when enrolled and in the same boat as all the rest of us. I think the government protocol for priority deployment overrides some ethical need to vaccinate placebo recipients before the rest of us?
11-27-2020, 04:51 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
There is an existing protocol to abruptly end clinical studies, and deploy the pharma in cases where very clear efficacy is established early on, and the condition being treated is very dangerous. It's been used before, I don't know what the threshold is.
But I recall that applying in the case of a specific condition which is afflicting all trial participants. In the case of covid the entire global is subject to the same risk, trial participants are not afflicted with anything when enrolled and in the same boat as the rest of us. I think the government protocol for priority deployment overrides some ethical need to vaccinate placebo recipients before the rest of us?
But I recall that applying in the case of a specific condition which is afflicting all trial participants. In the case of covid the entire global is subject to the same risk, trial participants are not afflicted with anything when enrolled and in the same boat as the rest of us. I think the government protocol for priority deployment overrides some ethical need to vaccinate placebo recipients before the rest of us?
yeah, but that protocol hasn’t ever had a situation where a dozen vaccines are being tested for the same disease simultaneously. While the protocol exists to terminate a study so both legs of it can receive optimal care, terminating it because a competitors vaccine got done first will mine the study will be unable to assess the value of the competing vaccine...
Just hasn’t come up previously really...
11-27-2020, 05:24 PM
#7
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Posts: 39,261
If you're a high-risk health care worker, yeah you should drop out and get the first vaccine you can.
If vaccines knock covid down to the point where it takes longer to do clinical trials for other vaccines, well that's a good problem to have. They can still complete trials, it will just take longer.
If vaccines knock covid down to the point where it takes longer to do clinical trials for other vaccines, well that's a good problem to have. They can still complete trials, it will just take longer.
11-27-2020, 05:55 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine
You know, hobbies are much more fun than shouting into the void.
Glendower:
I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur:
Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?
I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur:
Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?
Shakespeare
11-27-2020, 08:05 PM
#9
P/T Gear Slinger
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: Airbus
Posts: 824
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Get me off commuting to reserve and I’ll do something else.
11-27-2020, 08:18 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by emersonbiguns
we’ve all got our favorites. I like:
https://www.realcleardefense.com
and most recently:
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine....pilot-shortage
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