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When do we hit herd immunity?

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When do we hit herd immunity?

Old 02-23-2021, 11:05 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Knobcrk1 View Post
. What they chose to do is the more sensible option which is to not kill everyone, enforce mandates so we can go on with our lives and form the vaccine.
Not kill everyone? What do you believe the case fatality rate to be?



And the above does not include the cases so asymptomatic they are not even being diagnosed. And that, of course, is out of a worldwide population of 7.8 BILLION.

I don’t think the extinction of the species was ever seriously at risk...
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Old 02-23-2021, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by SocialistPilot View Post
No we killed half a million people. And if we had listened to the libertarians of the world we probably would've killed 10 million. Personally I would prefer the New Zealand approach

Dubious claim at best. Half a million people died WITH covid. How many died OF covid is any body's guess but it wasn't half a million. I repeat the point. How do you explain the results in Sweden? They didn't do any of the things you suggest. They did less than the US and the other 25 countries with more deaths per 100K above them on the list yet fared better. Why can't we accept actual data instead of hyperbole?
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Old 02-23-2021, 11:10 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Seneca Pilot View Post
Why can't we accept actual data instead of hyperbole?
Serious question? OK, a serious answer:

Because many people have been conditioned to believe that virtue signaling trumps actual science.

Others are so pathetically ignorant of science itself that you can’t actually explain science to them.
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Old 02-23-2021, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
Others are so pathetically ignorant of science itself that you can’t actually explain science to them.
The problem is the word "Science", as it is used by a certain political party, has no relation to the actual definition of that word.

That word, its associated causes, and the treatment of those who question its "revealed truths" is wielded no differently today than the Church's power in the Middle Ages.

It will be massively ironic if in another few hundred years human civilization has created another dark age, this time in the name of "Science". I can hear it now, "I can't believe that 200 years ago you used to be able to hop on a machine with wings and fly to where ever you wanted in the world, and when you got there that place had abundant electricity and heat to keep the lights on every day of the year."
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Old 02-23-2021, 02:16 PM
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Looking at the worldometer COVID page I see Sweden at 23rd in the world based on deaths/1M population. The world average is 320/1M. Sweden has 1257/1M as of right now. So, yes their strategy was a partial success but they aren’t some shining example. There are tons of countries that had lockdowns, mask mandates and social distancing below them on the list.

Dr Tegnell said "If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done." according to BBC.

As for immunity after infection we know people are getting reinfected we don’t know how long immunity lasts. It will almost certainly not last decades.

You are unlikely to convince me that a reasonable leader would have looked at this problem in January of 2020 and said “let it rip! Hide the old people. Hide the 56M Americans that have preexisting conditions.” We didn’t know if a vaccine would be effective, we didn’t know about long term health effects, we didn’t know about reinfection, we didn’t know what the mutation rate would be. Etc etc. I will point out that in the long run, you would expect the virus to mutate to a less lethal but more contagious variant. But before that point major lethal mutations are also possible. So infecting hundreds of millions of people and thereby encouraging mutation, seems irresponsible.

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Old 02-23-2021, 02:47 PM
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[
"I can't believe that 200 years ago you used to be able to hop on a machine with wings and fly to where ever you wanted in the world, and when you got there that place had abundant electricity and heat to keep the lights on every day of the year."
I guess Texas is out.
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Old 02-23-2021, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Looking at the worldometer COVID page I see Sweden at 23rd in the world based on deaths/1M population. The world average is 320/1M. Sweden has 1257/1M as of right now. So, yes their strategy was a partial success but they aren’t some shining example. There are tons of countries that had lockdowns, mask mandates and social distancing below them on the list.

Dr Tegnell said "If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done." according to BBC.

As for immunity after infection we know people are getting reinfected we don’t know how long immunity lasts. It will almost certainly not last decades.

You are unlikely to convince me that a reasonable leader would have looked at this problem in January of 2020 and said “let it rip! Hide the old people. Hide the 56M Americans that have preexisting conditions.” We didn’t know if a vaccine would be effective, we didn’t know about long term health effects, we didn’t know about reinfection, we didn’t know what the mutation rate would be. Etc etc. I will point out that in the long run, you would expect the virus to mutate to a less lethal but more contagious variant. But before that point major lethal mutations are also possible. So infecting hundreds of millions of people and thereby encouraging mutation, seems irresponsible.

​​

Well, the leader we had at the time pushed back on the school closings, and the widespread lock downs, and said we would have a vaccine before the end of the year, and closed (to the extent of his authority) travel from the source country and later Europe where it was raging despite lock downs. All he got for that foresight was a media that skewered him daily. He turned out to be largely right. It almost looks like he had other information than just what Fauchi was putting out. Like he was taking in information from many sources and coming to rational conclusions.
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Old 02-23-2021, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Seneca Pilot View Post
Well, the leader we had at the time pushed back on the school closings, and the widespread lock downs, and said we would have a vaccine before the end of the year, and closed (to the extent of his authority) travel from the source country and later Europe where it was raging despite lock downs. All he got for that foresight was a media that skewered him daily. He turned out to be largely right. It almost looks like he had other information than just what Fauchi was putting out. Like he was taking in information from many sources and coming to rational conclusions.
Does lying to the American people and admitting it on tape rank up there with an appropriate action?

So you are saying we reacted well to COVID? This outcome is good? I don’t think this outcome is anything to be proud of.

I think turning off travel from China but not Europe was a half-hearted attempt (but a good move). 40,000 people still traveled to the US from China after the “shutdown”.

In either case the serial loser is gone. I don’t think he exhibited any traits of a leader during the crisis, but that’s not surprising given integrity is a fundamental quality of leadership.

None of that changes the question. Given the unknowns in January of 2020 what rational leader would say let it rip.
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Old 02-23-2021, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Does lying to the American people and admitting it on tape rank up there with an appropriate action?

So you are saying we reacted well to COVID? This outcome is good? I don’t think this outcome is anything to be proud of.

I think turning off travel from China but not Europe was a half-hearted attempt (but a good move). 40,000 people still traveled to the US from China after the “shutdown”.

In either case the serial loser is gone. I don’t think he exhibited any traits of a leader during the crisis, but that’s not surprising given integrity is a fundamental quality of leadership.

None of that changes the question. Given the unknowns in January of 2020 what rational leader would say let it rip.

Lying to the American people ranks him right up there with every other President, Senator, and House member. Along with Governors and state legislators. I also agree that he is low on the wish list for a President but not much lower than the current grifter. I didn't vote for either one.

You didn't respond so maybe you didn't see it but he did push back on school closings and mass lock downs. He did try to keep things more open but those decisions are made more locally. You can't have a national response in a constitutional republic.

The China to US travel was restricted to US citizens who can't be rejected, permanent residents who can't be rejected, and diplomats and their families that can't be rejected. Travel from Europe was shut down but not at the same time, a bit later. I know it's orange man bad but it isn't ok to mold the history to your personal preferences and leave out inconvenient facts.

I am saying we over reacted to Covid. We closed down too much. We destroyed a full year of our children's education with no scientific justification. We destroyed millions of jobs and businesses for no good reason. The President at the time attempted to slow down this over reaction. He did lie, so did many others. Cuomo continues to lie to try and save his skin. Newsome continues to lie. Governors who are attempting to open up and save their economies are suffering the same railroading that Trump did. Maybe they should lie to be more acceptable to portions of our population. Just go along to get along. Who cares what happens to the little guy, right?
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Old 02-23-2021, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Seneca Pilot View Post
It almost looks like he had other information than just what Fauchi was putting out.
Yes he did. Matt Pottinger, Trumps Deputy NSA gave an interesting interview on Face the Nation the other day...
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