opt0712

Seriously? Ok, how about: Hotels, Tourism, Small Businesses, Service Industry all add up to a larger chunk of the economy than aviation. Furthermore, many of those affected in those industries aren't making an average of 100k and up.

rickair7777

A lot of that is utterly dependent on airlines. The fed correctly assessed that if all of the big airlines go BK (with multiple liquidations) that would delay the broader recovery because it would take literally years to restore an airline infrastructure (using anything like normal business and safety protocols).

Low-end service industries can spool back up pretty quickly by comparison.

I actually feel a bit like we dodged a bullet. It wasn't really a near-thing with federal aid, but you could see catastrophe on the horizon. The current and previous administrations did the right thing, but there are people in DC who would have just let the airlines die if it were up to them.

I don't know how you felt last Apr but I could certainly see the abyss from where I stood, if not exactly teetering on the edge.

rickair7777

Our profession didn't "go" in the dirt, it was "put" in the dirt.

But either way, the fed had to save the industry. The part about the workers getting full pay to sit home was just a political side-effect. And the pols in question couldn't practically take care of all the low-end workers, and justify cutting loose several of the best paid union groups in the country.

opt0712

I agree they are interdependent. At no point was I thinking the federal government would let the aviation sector falter. Sure there would be temporary pain in the form of layoffs and furloughs. It's the exact same thing that happened with the auto industry in 2009. That of course was only ONE bailout. So naturally, there are going to be those who won't look favorably on higher than average earning aviation employees who were bailed out THREE times.

rickair7777

Understandable. Maybe they should have required the airlines to pay only 70% of baseline wages to those not working. Most people should be able to keep their house with that much. But again, politics and optics.

ACEssXfer

hotels and tourism? Lol. Where do the people come from that use hotels and “tourism”.........what percentage of “tourism” do you think arrive at their destination via an airline? Cmon man. You also only answered 50% of what I said. I said hard hit AND vital to the economy.

There is no possible way for the govt to bail out every single small business and every single restaurant. There are simply too many. It also wouldn’t take years and years to rebuild the infrastructure of a small bookstore or ice cream shop on main st. Any town, USA. That said, my state had programs akin to the PSP for restaurants and small businesses. It helped many survive that otherwise wouldn’t have.

It is sad and unfortunate that so many people owning a small business lost their livelihood through no fault of their own. To insinuate they have the same economical impact of airlines ceasing to exist is asinine.

Lastly, you people keep mentioning how much pilots make. Yes, some are getting paid to sit at home. Pilots are a small fraction of the employees being propped up by the govt. My airline for example furloughed 20+ thousand. Only 1500ish were pilots. The other employee groups(all 18,500 of them) do not sniff even 50-60k a year never mind the 100+ you are mentioning.

You people need to stop and think before you post...........”tourism”.......lol

opt0712

Man, it seems you really get off on proving you are smarter than other people. Yes, I should have been more specific in naming pilot jobs with regard to salary. The whole point that you seem to be missing, is what I stated above: The government bailed the airlines out THREE times. Perhaps a little humility, instead of the "I deserve this more than others" attitude you seem to be portraying in 90% of your posts.

ACEssXfer

Please quote the part of my post saying I deserve anything.

The airlines needed to be bailed out 3 times because the government shuttered our country down for nearly 12 months. The airlines had solid business models that have been making money for years now. The media blew up covid and then the politicians dropped a carpet bomb on the airlines.

You jumped on top of someone else’s “pilots are greedy and shouldn’t be getting bailed out” post. This sentiment has been getting floated every couple of months now for the past year. You are the latest trumpeter even though every time someone(like Rick) rationally explains that pilots are just a small minority of a much broader system that would not have survived without intervention.

opt0712

This is what I was responding to. And your response suggested that pilots should be excluded. Of course that's not what the poster was saying. The whole point of aeroengineers response and my own were the fact that many outside the industry are wondering what makes those in the aviation industry so special. That seems to be a prominent perception, that's all.

I of course agree without intervention, our economy would have faltered. The media did blow it up and put the airlines into quite the bind as you stated. My hope is there will be an attitude of humility from said aviation employees when your paying pax come back in droves.

ACEssXfer

That’s the thing though. “What makes the aviation industry so special”(and also why pilots are benefitting) has been explained over and over and over and then over again. Then 2 months later someone else posts the same outrage that pilots are getting paid and a bunch of other posters jump all over it “yea!!!! Greedy pilots!!!!!” It’s tiring and ignorant.

As far as humility goes: We’ll see. I don’t see it happening. The airline culture is poisoned right now and has been for years due to many factors.