Ethics of COVID immunization in kids
09-04-2021, 07:09 AM
#1
Perennial Reserve
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Joined APC: Jan 2018
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Ethics of COVID immunization in kids
The delay of approval of COVID immunization in those under 12 has raised a number of issues - not merely those involving schools. The problem has several issues, including the CFR requiring higher levels of caution with drug approvals for children and a higher standard of assurance of benefit to offset the risk since kids are legally incapable of giving informed consent for such testing like adults are. That is the case with ALL drug testing for children, and the bottom line issue is that the potential benefit TO THE CHILD (emphasis added) must exceed the risk, however little that risk might be. And even with the younger age groups that have been approved it seems that in some respects - incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis, for example, these immunizations while still quite safe are somewhat higher than you see in adults. But the problem as you go younger is not the absolute amount of risk involved for approving these immunizations, it is the risk-benefit ratio.
While the immunizations may not be terribly risky in the pediatric group, neither is COVID. Sure, COVID CAN kill young kids, but it rarely does, just as immunizations CAN kill kids (as the first RSV vaccine demonstrated) although that too is a rare event.
We may be soon facing the issue of potentially vaccinating kids not for their own safety but rather as part of an effort to provide herd immunity to decrease the riskif infection to those who are at increased risk, the elderly, those living with HIV, cancer patients under treatment with immune suppressing radiation or chemotherapy, and those with multiple comorbidities.
This is sort of a new area in Public Health, and it is clear the FDA people are moving slowly and with much concern in the face of political pressure to move faster. The recent top tier resignations may well be part of that concern.
https://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/regulations-and-policy/guidance/faq/children-research/index.html
https://news.yahoo.com/vaccine-leaders-resign-pfizer-booster-142824241.html
While the immunizations may not be terribly risky in the pediatric group, neither is COVID. Sure, COVID CAN kill young kids, but it rarely does, just as immunizations CAN kill kids (as the first RSV vaccine demonstrated) although that too is a rare event.
We may be soon facing the issue of potentially vaccinating kids not for their own safety but rather as part of an effort to provide herd immunity to decrease the riskif infection to those who are at increased risk, the elderly, those living with HIV, cancer patients under treatment with immune suppressing radiation or chemotherapy, and those with multiple comorbidities.
This is sort of a new area in Public Health, and it is clear the FDA people are moving slowly and with much concern in the face of political pressure to move faster. The recent top tier resignations may well be part of that concern.
https://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/regulations-and-policy/guidance/faq/children-research/index.html
https://news.yahoo.com/vaccine-leaders-resign-pfizer-booster-142824241.html
09-04-2021, 10:34 AM
#2
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Or they can be vaccinated for their own benefit...
To allow them to participate in school, sports, etc and allow their parents to work and feed them instead of staying home providing daycare.
Like anything else there's a tradeoff between the risks of vaccination vs. covid or social isolation. Vaccine risks are exceptionally low and the delat variant is affecting young people more.
It is appropriate for the gov to go slow with kids, since the adult trial results do not automatically in all cases translate to child biology.
To allow them to participate in school, sports, etc and allow their parents to work and feed them instead of staying home providing daycare.
Like anything else there's a tradeoff between the risks of vaccination vs. covid or social isolation. Vaccine risks are exceptionally low and the delat variant is affecting young people more.
It is appropriate for the gov to go slow with kids, since the adult trial results do not automatically in all cases translate to child biology.
09-04-2021, 01:26 PM
#4
Perennial Reserve
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an excerpt:
Many politicians and some scientists have spoken out in favor of vaccinating more children amid concerns that COVID-19 could spread in schools reopening after the summer holidays, further disrupting education.
Britain has reported more than 133,000 deaths from COVID-19 and nearly 7 million cases, and while transmission among children can be high, they are rarely severely ill from the disease.
On Friday, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) said children with underlying conditions that made them more at risk from COVID-19 should get vaccinated.
For healthy children, there was still a small benefit from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and advisers said the risk-benefit was “finely balanced.”
However, the JCVI said it wanted more information on the long-term effects of rare reports of heart inflammation, known as myocarditis, in young people following vaccination with Pfizer’s shot.
US booster plan faces complications, some may miss Sept. 20 Myocarditis is rare and normally mild, with patients usually recovering in a few days.
“Of course, these vaccines do work and would be beneficial to children in terms of preventing infection and disease, but the number of serious cases that we see of COVID in children this age are really very small,” JCVI member Adam Finn told Reuters.
“There are uncertainties about the long-term implications of (myocarditis), and that makes the risk-benefit balance for these children really quite tight and much tighter than we would be comfortable to make the recommendation.”
UK Secretary of State for Health and Social Care Sajid Javid, who sets policy for England, and his counterparts from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, wrote to the chief medical officers (CMOs) of the four nations, asking for further advice, “including on educational impacts.”
Britain has reported more than 133,000 deaths from COVID-19 and nearly 7 million cases, and while transmission among children can be high, they are rarely severely ill from the disease.
On Friday, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) said children with underlying conditions that made them more at risk from COVID-19 should get vaccinated.
For healthy children, there was still a small benefit from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and advisers said the risk-benefit was “finely balanced.”
However, the JCVI said it wanted more information on the long-term effects of rare reports of heart inflammation, known as myocarditis, in young people following vaccination with Pfizer’s shot.
US booster plan faces complications, some may miss Sept. 20 Myocarditis is rare and normally mild, with patients usually recovering in a few days.
“Of course, these vaccines do work and would be beneficial to children in terms of preventing infection and disease, but the number of serious cases that we see of COVID in children this age are really very small,” JCVI member Adam Finn told Reuters.
“There are uncertainties about the long-term implications of (myocarditis), and that makes the risk-benefit balance for these children really quite tight and much tighter than we would be comfortable to make the recommendation.”
UK Secretary of State for Health and Social Care Sajid Javid, who sets policy for England, and his counterparts from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, wrote to the chief medical officers (CMOs) of the four nations, asking for further advice, “including on educational impacts.”
09-04-2021, 02:07 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,700
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Or they can be vaccinated for their own benefit...
To allow them to participate in school, sports, etc and allow their parents to work and feed them instead of staying home providing daycare.
Like anything else there's a tradeoff between the risks of vaccination vs. covid or social isolation. Vaccine risks are exceptionally low and the delat variant is affecting young people more.
It is appropriate for the gov to go slow with kids, since the adult trial results do not automatically in all cases translate to child biology.
To allow them to participate in school, sports, etc and allow their parents to work and feed them instead of staying home providing daycare.
Like anything else there's a tradeoff between the risks of vaccination vs. covid or social isolation. Vaccine risks are exceptionally low and the delat variant is affecting young people more.
It is appropriate for the gov to go slow with kids, since the adult trial results do not automatically in all cases translate to child biology.
A physician friend refers to the notion of vaccinating healthy kids for Covid "child abuse."
09-04-2021, 02:45 PM
#6
Perennial Reserve
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Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,499
The Brits look at child vaccination
09-04-2021, 03:58 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,236
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Or they can be vaccinated for their own benefit...
To allow them to participate in school, sports, etc and allow their parents to work and feed them instead of staying home providing daycare.
Like anything else there's a tradeoff between the risks of vaccination vs. covid or social isolation. Vaccine risks are exceptionally low and the delat variant is affecting young people more.
It is appropriate for the gov to go slow with kids, since the adult trial results do not automatically in all cases translate to child biology.
To allow them to participate in school, sports, etc and allow their parents to work and feed them instead of staying home providing daycare.
Like anything else there's a tradeoff between the risks of vaccination vs. covid or social isolation. Vaccine risks are exceptionally low and the delat variant is affecting young people more.
It is appropriate for the gov to go slow with kids, since the adult trial results do not automatically in all cases translate to child biology.
09-04-2021, 05:46 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Reclining
Posts: 840
Although I have a limited understanding of bioethics, some research into the topic revealed this: vaccinating one cohort to protect another cohort is only ethical if the vaccine offers a risk less than the disease in which you are vaccinating against. I believe the jury is still out on that.
09-04-2021, 05:58 PM
#9
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Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver
A physician friend refers to the notion of vaccinating healthy kids for Covid "child abuse."
09-04-2021, 06:29 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 429
Originally Posted by rickair7777
We vaccinated ours so we could go on a family vacation. And they're getting the flu shot this fall. As far as I can tell they don't seem abused.
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