Analysts webcast
 

Delta Air Lines hosts May analyst meeting on May 11, 2017 | Delta News Hub

Now that the Aeromexico JCA (JV) is up and running there will probably be strategy talk about this model going forward. Korean next and possibly others.

Delta and Aeromexico to launch Joint Cooperation Agreement | Delta News Hub

Amazing to see how quickly they are "moving in." The A terminal in Detroit was about 50% Delta, the rest was Air France, AeroMexico (including an Aeromexico Connect E-190), and Virgin Atlantic.

I'd guess the A terminal in Detroit is 99% Delta. AF has one flight a day, we picked up the second London so Virgin has zero flights and I've only ever seen one Aero Mexico flight.

This.


Reason takes away from the narrative. Carry on.

I did see an Aero Mexico E190 and 737 sitting next to each other last week or the one before.

Bump...

Tomorrow. 8:30 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. ET

https://event.on24.com/wcc/r/1424618...134E541B6456F9

Why we would ever again consider a reduction in profit sharing for pay rates is beyond ignorant.


https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d..._8k-ex9901.htm

You must fly out of a completely different terminal A in DTW. Last week almost every gate was full. Not a single aircraft that was not Delta. I think I saw a one AF flight there a month ago.

Might he mean the checkin counter space and not the actual concourse?

I never have nor never will vote YES to any TA that has us "swapping or trading" profit sharing for pay rates. To do would show extreme ignorance not only of the mindset of big business but of history.

If we were to swap 1/2 of our profit sharing for rates the following would happen. We would originally see a little bigger bump in pay rates that would smooth out to neutral (if we hadn't swapped) by the end of the contract. Then when the next TA was negotiated we'd be at ground zero on pay rates and negotiating vs. our peers at the "neutral" rate.

In essence we'd see a small one time boost for that first year at best or better $$$ as a result. Then we'd be gauged and compared against industry average... now we have those rates at or slightly better than our peers PLUS profit sharing.

I'll never vote YES to any contract that cuts profit sharing. Don't fall for it.

Tail

And if you take the argument to the other extreme...

This is a built in cost reduction during a loss, which makes it easier to recover to a profit. If we were ever to go through another bankruptcy and have profit sharing, the carrot would have to be more PS not just getting some back.

The airline is built tough for huge profits. The JV's are raking in the cash. Don't sound so beaten. Don't give up. It would be stupid to think that way right now. Huge profits are forecasted for many years. Why trade a huge benefit for something we'd see limited return on and only for a year or two? Didn't you enjoy your industry leading pay + industry leading profit sharing last year?

I did. Don't be scared.

Tail

Ok, you've convinced me. :D We are sustainably at the $6Bish level. I would never trade even in a down year. (though I don't think a down year is really a possibility in the foreseeable future)

We are on the same page. My argument was for retaining PS but a little TIC. :cool:

Not for pay. But if they want to talk PS, we say how much scope are they willing to give up (to us) for it, and BTW its going to be expensive. :cool:

So we can grieve it when that doesn't happen, no thanks. If we do anything well it's give scope and settle for little. My settlement check wasn't anywhere near the amount of my profit sharing check. :eek:

.
So KDTW has like 76 "A" gates. So 38 gates had JV partners? Yeah, sure.

Ever wonder why so few pilots actually ever view forums?

Probably because there are so many BS fact-free posts like yours.

.

While that post was talking more about international outsourcing, let's examine this for a moment on a grander outsourcing scale since you think it's far-fetched for half the gates to be non-DL.

There 62 gates at terminal A.

12 of them can handle an international arrival.

Air France
Virgin Atlantic
AeroMexico (MEX)
AeroMexico (MTY, DL/DTW is losing that route to them in the near future)

The remaining 50 gates at terminal A are often populated with CRJs and EMBs. There can easily be eight of them at once on each inner alleyway, for a total of ~16 plus the possible four aforementioned JV flights on the other side for a total of 20.

20 / 62 = 32% outsourced

But that is if every other gate of the remaining 42 is occupied by a DL mainline jet.

If a third total were open, or about 20, then 20/42 is very close to half of the jets parked at terminal A being outsourced/JV metal.

Oh, and there's the entire B/C terminal which is of course 100% outsourced flying.

Less than half of DTW departures the past few years have been mainline. Good to see it creeping back up on the small aircraft end of the spectrum, but the JV international stuff is growing at the other end of it.

That route was always flown by Compass on a E175. Now Delta mainline flies it on an A319. The flight schedule only goes out to April 2018 but it is Delta mainline the whole time.

Agreed, which is why we need strict penalties for non compliance. In the interim, we need to aggressively pursue injunctions to cease any non compliant flying. In any case, worshipping PS as greater than scope because of how weakly we settled the AF grievance, carried to its logical conclusion, would mean that we should trade existing scope for more PS because PS is almighty and scope is weak. That is simply not the case. If you got a penny from PS its only because you had a job because of scope in the firs place to be on the list to get the PS.

Scope > PS. All day, every day.

Wait until the next round of negotiations. They are planning on coming hard to the paint for large RJ scope relief, and at least some in our ranks are in favor of it (for whatever little cookie they get in return) and think we can be dragged along into accepting it.

Im not so sure. They have 90+ 717s and up to 125 CS100s on the books. The 717s are already taking back a lot of previous large RJ flying and we have yet to see what the CS100s can do, but it would suffice to say it will offer more flexibility than more RJs. Where do you see a perceived need or desire for them?

How about we keep the two issues separate. PS was written into the contract in times of concessions as sort of a safety valve. If the company became wildly profitable (it did) after we took massive pay-cuts (we did) we would be compensated (we are). ;)

I agree that Scope is all important, but it is a stand alone issue.

Scoop

Fine enough. I'm just responding to the prevalent and (seemingly rapidly) growing sentiment that PS is the king of kings and nothing beats it, coupled with a resigned apathy towards scope because "they'll just violate it anyway" etc.

Scope is, by far, the most important issue.

Yes but we also have to consider 116 dogs are leaving the fleet fairly rapidly. While we did buff up the 321 orders to help, many of those are likely eventual replacements for 757's but we'll see. In any case the big score is > 76 seats and/or higher weights. Hopefully we're not that dumb, but why wouldn't they try? For what's left, more 76ers in exchange for less 50s they want to park anyway will at a minimum be offered. Keep an ear open and you'll hear some volleys already on the way, albeit in the distance for now, in an attempt to soften the beachhead.

They still want this.

Where did all our 757's go? I was on a A321 jump seat yesterday leaving ATL at noon, we went out of A18 and as we taxied on Lima all the way down to Ramp 6 before turning onto Mike to get in the 21 plane conga line for 9L/M2, I looked at every jet on A, B, C, D and E, not a single 757, and none in the takeoff line up either.

I saw lots and lots of A321's at A gates, which have taken over most of the ATL-MCO flying, along with all the 737's/Mad Dogs/717's at B and C gates, but not a single 757 in the ATL? Were they all airborne in the 8/10am launch, going to the west coast, or up in JFK and DTW? It was rather eerie not seeing a single 757 in ATL.

entertaining there is any exchange of PS for anything is the first step to failure. its no longer an either or proposition.

they are both important, but NEVER should one come at the expense of the other. Hopefully for most of us, PS is now installed and perceived as a DURABLE component in our PWA.

We may as well entertain the rationale that vacation is exchangeable for scope. Or medical insurance. Or the 401 16%. Or duty rigs.

That is the standing PS now has in the PWA....and if anyone views it otherwise, they are courting failure.

A lot of young folks getting hired at DL these days, that demographic will be a strong voice against narrowbody scope gives. Good idea to stay vigilant.

Think mgt would be comfortable with current scope other than
Gross WT. looks like next gen rj's are heavy due to geared engines

Aeromexico is not taking dtw flights, they are additions to our flights, thus creating more connecting passengers for our delta flights. Just like our passengers connect on theirs in Mexico City.

So more seats are being added to the city pair. Why not Delta? Are we increasing ATL-MEX? We are not competing for this additional lift. That's the point.

Too bad so sad.

One pound over and we'll fly them on the DL list or they won't have them.

Maybe...unless those pax transfer in an AM hub to their wide bodies, direct to somewhere we would have otherwise flown them...