Captain upgrade mins
 

Anyone know if PIC time as a defense contractor would count towards captain upgrade mins? I believe all flying was conducted under military flight rules in a multi-engine airplane requiring 2 pilots. Thanks

It has to be part 121 time.

I believe it can be a combo of 121, 91 PIC (with certain caveats), 135 PIC (turbojet) and military (multi-engine, more than 1 pilot required). Just trying to see if the contractor stuff fit into any of that.

Lol. It's funny to me that we are even having this conversation at Delta. 2 years of flying the line gets you to minimums.

no. only actual military flying counts. contractor flying doesnt count.

I just saw on the Delta profile that the most junior captain was hired in Jan. 2017.
It is mind blowing that someone on probation can be in the left seat at one of the big 3.

Once you upgrade to Captain you are no longer on probation.

Denny

yup....cuz that's when you move to 'Double Secret Probation!!'...:D

Rog. Thanks

I thought Captain upgrade mins at Delta were 1000 hours of 121 time? What does PIC flying have to do with it?

The 1,000 hours SIC Part 121 requirement is reducible to 500 hours for non-single seat multi-engine turbine military time...but that military time has to be PIC time per 121.436 (c).

Yeah I imagine there are some single seat fighter guys that's heads are spinning right now. They probably went through indoc with some former part 121 FO's that now hold a Captain bid because they have the 121 time.

Yep. Heard an ALPA training guy use those exact words.

I see. Thanks

As a single seat guy, I'm not sure I would have wanted to upgrade so quickly. While I think I have good decision making skills, having less than 1,000 hours is probably not enough exposure to the intricacies of airline ops. I'm sure I could have done it but I'm in no hurry. I'm learning a lot from watching my captains...both what to do and what not to do. Plus it's always nice, when the FA calls with a problem, to look at the captain and tell them that's why they makes the big bucks! :D

Exactly. Enjoy the ride.

Excellent way too look at it!

Where I can I find the exact language on this? FOM, PWA or somewhere else? I want to pass the actual language on to a friend but want to be accurate. Thx.

FAR 121.436
PWA 20.A.5
PWA 20.C.1.b

Thank you!

True, but when does probation officially end? After signed off IOE, or when you show up for training? Hopefully its the latter.

Only a guess but, isn't a conversion date, a conversion date?

A pilot will be on probation until the earlier of:

a. 400 hours of block time (inclusive of O.E.),
b. completion of 12 months of aggregate service, or
c. conversion to a Captain position.

Denny

Completely agree. I've had to learn CRM on the job. Delta's minimal training program really doesn't address how to do GOOD CRM, just how not to do bad CRM. Put another way, I don't want to just be a Capt, I want to be a GOOD Capt! That's going to take some more time.

Right, but how exactly is conversion defined? The conversion list date?

Ummmmmm.....probably kinda like under 2.A.58 which says “Conversion date” means the date on which the award or assignment of a pilot to a different category becomes effective.

What he said.

Denny

But......but single seat f-teen pilots use CRM TOO!!!!!

NOTE/DISCLAIMER;

That's mostly sarcasm, directed at the slight, SLIGHT bit of ignorance for those that don't know what they TRULY DONT KNOW, from BOTH SIDES of the background/road/path.

Because sure as shinola, this thread has all the makings of a mil vs. civ wang measuring contest.

Crewdawg is a smart guy, don't think I've ever read a post of his I disagree with. Meaning, he pretty much NAILS IT.

The CRM acronym in the F teen world is managing your Cockpit resources, so the maps, target photos, checklist, lineup card, NVGs, etc are in order. It doesn't mean there is no concept of operating as a crew. We just substitute Flight Members for Crew Members.

Much of the skills and discipline used when dividing the roles and responsibilities between Flight Lead, Element Lead and Wingmen translate well into PM and PF. Giving #2 the lead for an intercept or attack is a good analogy of the FO acting as PF. The Captain (Flight Lead) is still in charge, but the FO (Wingman) is flying and calling for the checklists.

You can carry the logic one step further. As the Captain (Mission Commander) you are coordinating multiple assets (e.g. Flight Crew, Cabin Crew, Ground Crew, Gate Agents) much the same way you would integrate with Maintenance, Munitions, Weapons, AWACS, SEAD, OCA, DCA, Strikers, etc. It's a similar set of skills, implemented in a different language.

We KNOWWWWWWW...............

#sarcasm

Yes, yes, but what are your instructions on dog bites man or vice:eek:y-versa.