I'm skeptical. Here's why:

Then you wrote:

It looks like you understand that childbirth for a father is not a mental health issue. Stress, anxiety, and the potential for distraction are all reasonable responses for the situation, and don't necessarily represent a chronic mental health disorder. But that's just my opinion, and I'm not a QHCP. If the VP is, then I apologize for questioning his diagnosis.

Maybe if I'd been with your group while you were discussing childbirth as it related to sick calls and mental health with the VP, I could be sure of the context. I'm sure there's no way you could have misheard a VP stating that child delivery for a father is a "mental health issue", so I'll file it as another 100% bona fide internet fact.

Doesn't matter. "Back in the day" we could smoke in the cockpit. "Back in the day" my First Class medical cost me $30. "Back in the day" my doctor(s) didn't have full-time staffers whose only purpose was to process insurance claims and payments.

Were you referencing SWA in your post? If so, I missed it. My guess is the number of SWA pilots who drop a 12-day Asia trip due to childbirth could complicate such a comparison.

Maybe they still had "mental health issues" left over from the delivery, and it caused them to misunderstand the out-of-pocket maximums of our plans?

Probably not necessary if it was just one guy casually mentioning how much it cost to have a kid delivered. But if it was someone broadcasting to all, claiming childbirth cost, "...the better part of a crisp Salmon P Chase note.", I'd ask a few follow-up questions. The first would be, "What caused the delivery to cost more than $5,000 when the SPD indicates it should be considerably less?"

I think there's plenty to see here. I also think it's possible some of it could be exaggerated.

Agree. Do NOT just call in sick on probation with a life event that will be reported to Delta. Don't start your career this way. It may or may not come to Delta's attention, but it is not worth the risk.

We can all debate whether this should be covered by sick leave, but for now it is not.

Call your CPO: I have witnessed the CPO's office authorize sick leave for such events.

Define mental health. See how easy that is. So easy that you immediately say:

Right, and IMSAFE and all that, etc. Right? So it is a mental issue, meaning its an issue of the mind. If they press to the point of a note, are you going to get one from a podiatrist or a world renowned tennis elbow surgeon?

Oh, but:

Well that depends, doesn't it? We won't know for sure unless we get a truly "qualified" person to rule on it, i.e. a qualified mental health care professional. Right? And no one said it had to be "chronic" anyway. So go ahead and get that temporary mentally unfit to fly letter in your jacket. Heck, one for every life event that comes up. That should be fun.

You're chasing your tail on this one. He didn't "diagnose" anything, but VERY clearly said that anything stress related, if it came to the point of needing a note, would need a note from a medical professional qualified to make such a diagnosis. So a note for being unfit to fly for mental and emotional reasons. Where do you think such a note would come from? A dermatologist?


The context was very clear, and was intended as a firewall in the form of career threatening intimidation. As in if you want to use the stress technicality in IMSAFE to get paid, then you'd better be prepared to go down that road. It was clear, obvious, intentional and everyone took it as such.

He didn't say it was a mental health issue in general. Only if you were claiming you should get paid from sick leave because you were stressed/distracted/etc. It was very much a "ok so you want to go down that road, we can go down that road too and here's where it leads".

Right, so its a (series of) concession(s) that have lead us to this point. We are where we are, and it is what it is. Obviously. But $50 deliveries on our end are now many thousands of dollars on our end. And then if you want to be there for it, be prepared to lose many thousands more dollars. Again, that's just where we are, and apparently its acceptable to you, and you treat anything else as a hopeless relic of days gone by. Duly noted. If 50.0% plus you also accept it, then it won't ever change and could get worse. But let's at least agree to call a deep concession a deep concession.

Was comparing the out of pocket SWA costs for continuing the species compared to ours. And the 12 day Asia trip is a straw man if ever there was one. Those are an extremely rare microscopic minority of our trips/block hours/pilots and when coupled with childbirth are as close to a statical zero as you can get while still technically existing in theory. Those pilots tend to be older and have fewer kids anyway, making that even less of a thing when it wasn't much of a thing in the first place.

Right. Next time I'll tell them "I used to think you were a liar, but now I think you're just crazy". That should go over well.


I'm not saying it always cost us that. But I am saying that it should never cost us that. We're focused on hourly rates and PS and lately we've been successful in getting those, but meantime healthcare is one area where the company claws back some of those gains. And supersaver LCC SWA continues to provide better health care than we do to our dirty, stinking, lying, exaggerating and mentally ill pilots.

Ok, you win the argument. I hope your victory brings you emotional peace.

Several contracts ago, the Company's opener included a proposal that they could, for a "valid reason", require any pilot to submit to a professional mental evaluation. Of course that was a bogeyman item, one of the absurdities that both sides used to put into their first offers, so that they would have something to throw away. :rolleyes:

Remember when they thought Witter was nuts... Nuts all the way to the bank. Cost 'em big time.:eek:

If he got paid, that wasn't his primary goal. I believe he was for real, a strange duck.

You (might) have to be there for the keel-laying, but you don't have to be there for the launch!:eek:

I measure victory by us getting better healthcare and the ability to openly and honestly get paid for a trip drop when we have a kid, which for the vast majority of us is only a couple times a career, however exciting, distracting and stressful it may be. And if that one guy actually creates another human being for the purpose of getting out of a 12 day then I guess he pulled one over on someone. Then again, 18 years, 18 years, she got one of your kid she got you for 18 years.

This type of thread is the exact reason a group is forming the Pilot Family Matters Committee with DAL ALPA. 1 place for all questions.