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-   -   Reserve Long call question (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/110629-reserve-long-call-question.html)

gloopy 01-17-2018 09:52 AM


Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 2504789)
Wouldn't this let junior folks pick up a single SC to avoid the 5-day trip that now goes to the senior guy didn't want to fly?

No because that senior pilot could YS(only if needed) for that same SC and would get it in that case. Non issue.

gloopy 01-17-2018 09:54 AM


Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 2504825)
The junior guy should get the heinous 5 day. But the senior guy shouldn't have to put himself out for a short call just to hedge against getting the 5-day.

In this hypothetical example though, they're both going to get something. The only way in this case that the senior pilot would get the 5 day would be if the junior pilot got the SC instead. There isn't any scenario in the matrix that would give the junior pilot the 5 day and no one the SC. So everyone bids for what they want, including the "only if needed" function which eliminates this particular concern.

TED74 01-17-2018 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 2504958)
In this hypothetical example though, they're both going to get something. The only way in this case that the senior pilot would get the 5 day would be if the junior pilot got the SC instead. There isn't any scenario in the matrix that would give the junior pilot the 5 day and no one the SC. So everyone bids for what they want, including the "only if needed" function which eliminates this particular concern.

I was thinking beyond two reserve pilots and two things to be covered. Trouble is, the visibility we have into the reserve list is limited and we don't have adequate knowledge of pilots' legality (e.g. 117). You can't count on knowing exactly how many pilots are available, where you fall on the "actual" list, or what trips need to be covered... particularly with coverage of other bases' trips.

The reserve system currently assumes you don't want to fly and flies you when needed, unless you yellow slip and exercise seniority to do otherwise. If you all want to allow SCs to come before matching trips to reserve pilots, then I'd want an option to bid "I want to be home on long call. In lieu of that, I prefer sitting short call over flying... but I don't want SC if I don't have to fly. If short calls are all filled THEN I'd prefer to fly trip X over trip Y."

I don't want to take any unnecessary short calls to avoid flying trips I don't currently have to fly. Maybe I'm mixed up, but it sure sounds like that's what is being proposed. If I want to fly, I can ask to do that. If I want to sit SC, I can ask to do that. None of those choices (to my knowledge) force anyone senior to me to take anything (including just remaining on long call) that he didn't have a shot at first (exception being 1st SC after others have achieved 2). Doesn't seem broken to me.

gloopy 01-17-2018 03:29 PM


Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 2505008)
I was thinking beyond two reserve pilots and two things to be covered. Trouble is, the visibility we have into the reserve list is limited and we don't have adequate knowledge of pilots' legality (e.g. 117). You can't count on knowing exactly how many pilots are available, where you fall on the "actual" list, or what trips need to be covered... particularly with coverage of other bases' trips.

The reserve system currently assumes you don't want to fly and flies you when needed, unless you yellow slip and exercise seniority to do otherwise. If you all want to allow SCs to come before matching trips to reserve pilots, then I'd want an option to bid "I want to be home on long call. In lieu of that, I prefer sitting short call over flying... but I don't want SC if I don't have to fly. If short calls are all filled THEN I'd prefer to fly trip X over trip Y."

I don't want to take any unnecessary short calls to avoid flying trips I don't currently have to fly. Maybe I'm mixed up, but it sure sounds like that's what is being proposed. If I want to fly, I can ask to do that. If I want to sit SC, I can ask to do that. None of those choices (to my knowledge) force anyone senior to me to take anything (including just remaining on long call) that he didn't have a shot at first (exception being 1st SC after others have achieved 2). Doesn't seem broken to me.

The ambiguity of who is legal for what and the transparency of the reserve pool would be the same regardless. And either way the assumption would be nothing assigned unless needed, which is why we'd still have the SC or trip if needed functions as we currently do.

The only time the senior pilot would get "burned" in this case is if s/he didn't have any bid in for anything, not even an "if needed" preference and someone junior actually YS something. I can't see how that's unfair at all, since if someone didn't care enough to bid even a fallback "if needed" priority than they effectively forfeited their preference. There's nothing onerous about making someone actually bid for what they get and it doesn't abrogate seniority by letting a junior bid for something a senior didn't bother to bid for.

In any case, you're always going to have pilots getting burned (from the perspective of reserve is a stay at home all month baseline) since things will pop in and out of coverage all the time and there's just no way to guarantee all seniors stay at home until every single junior is flying or maxed out.

TED74 01-17-2018 04:13 PM

The underlying problem is that you can't bid an "if needed" that defines wanting short call over flying, only the "if neededs" for SC and flying separately. Give me an "if needed for something other than long call, give me SC before flying", and I'm happy.


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