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Negotiations coming up. Thoughts?

Old 03-20-2018, 07:13 AM
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Default Negotiations coming up. Thoughts?

I know it may be a bit premature but i'm always interested in seeing just what you guys are thinking about as another round of negotiations will begin in the not too distant future.

Other than pay which is always a top priority, what are the 3 items on your wish list? Work rules, insurance, retirement...please be specific.

Some of you may wonder why i'm asking and the reason is that a part of what you guys successfully negotiate tends to flow downstream to your flight attendants (since my group won't use their brain cells and actually vote in a union).

One thing that i'm always surprised by is how DALPA has not negotiated anything decent when it comes to health insurance plans especially compared to the competition. Any thoughts on that?
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:20 AM
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See the Low hanging fruit thread. But for me the three most important items besides pay are:

Scope/JV protections
Better Healthcare Options
QOL/Productivity Issues

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Old 03-20-2018, 07:22 AM
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pay should never be a priority. I don't understand why we as a pilot group give away things for industry standard pay.
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:25 AM
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1) Reroute pay for all reroutes, including mid-rotation reroutes and altering of transition trips.

2) Trip pay calculation changed to include leg-by-leg block calculations and day-by-day duty credit. I’m not sure how to explain this succinctly, but at ASA we often had 28 - 32 hour credit 4 days based on the rotation pay scheme. They were commutable, by the way.

3) Blanket JV / Codeshare scope protection based on ASM’s for every carrier Delta partners with.

You can keep the pay if you give me those items. #2 would sufficiently generate a pay increase.
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tunes View Post
pay should never be a priority. I don't understand why we as a pilot group give away things for industry standard pay.

Your thinking short term. What happens to "industry standard pay" if no Pilot groups make pay a priority? Pay has to be a priority.

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Old 03-20-2018, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
Your thinking short term. What happens to "industry standard pay" if no airlines make pay a priority? Pay has to be a priority.

Scoop
While I agree with this to an extent, pay has been a priority for two contracts now and the rest of our PWA is woefully lagging throughout every other section. We need a contract that focuses on QOL, soft credit and job protection. What’s the point in getting a $400/hr 777 rate if we farm out that flying?
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:52 AM
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1) Top-end scope.

2) Crew meals (quality, pre-ordered -- or at least highest-class of service.)

3) Hotels for new-hires (This is an embarassment.)

4) Reduce health insurance costs.

5) DC to 20%.

6) Increase per diem.
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:53 AM
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1. Full day pay for CQ
2. Full day pay for vacation day
3. JV Scope protection (for sure)
4. Would like 1 postitive space round trip domestic per year to use for our families (non-rev passes much more difficult with our efficiency of stuffing our planes nowadays) great for profit, bad for non reving
5. Would like the ability to jumpseat list with our regional partners, subject to being bumped by their employees of course.
6. New hires initial qualification training should be covered, even the worst regional airline covers this!
7. Additional pay for short call reserve
8. Holiday pay/incentive pay for flying over major holidays i.e. Christmas
9. Bank 6 months of sick leave instead of the month(ish) we have now
10. A-321 pay bumped to 757 pay rates (especially if we pick up Europe type flying) 757-200 I think has 199 seats the Neo will hold 197.
11. Ability to order crew meals (maybe subject to pay deduction)
12. When negotiating rates and/or pay raises...focus less on negotiating the top tier aircraft rates as we have them in such limited number (i.e. 777 and 350) and focus towards the 737 and A-320. NOT that the top tier rates aren't important and should be adjusted, but the effect on pay across the airline is muted a bit when/if so much political capital is spent negotiating the 12yr 777 Capt rate. (again not starting a war here)
Just a few off the top
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Old 03-20-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by RamenNoodles View Post
While I agree with this to an extent, pay has been a priority for two contracts now and the rest of our PWA is woefully lagging throughout every other section. We need a contract that focuses on QOL, soft credit and job protection. What’s the point in getting a $400/hr 777 rate if we farm out that flying?

Its pointless - that is why my first priority above is JV/Scope protection.

Its very easy not to worry about pay rates now that a 3rd year Pilot can pull in $245/hour as a 737 A. A lot of us were making $85/hour as a 5 year FO last decade and the reason we don't have to worry about pay rates is because we improved them.

I am not singling you out but the virtue signaling of guys saying they don't care about pay rates cracks me up. Pay is the single biggest contributor to QOL.

One point that I think needs to be made is that we (DAL Pilots) should absolutely stop trading pay gains for QOL items. Let UAL and AMR make these trades and we can follow them with a "Me too" clause just like the ones that they have benefited from.

Lets go UAL Pilots!


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Old 03-20-2018, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DALFA View Post
Other than pay which is always a top priority, what are the 3 items on your wish list? Work rules, insurance, retirement...please be specific.
Scope scope and scope.

Seriously.

And don't forget, our Scope shortcomings not only cost us our jobs, but yours as well (and dispatchers, mechanics etc).

Where is the FA union anywhere in the industry that actually negotiates (or even demands) scope in excess of what their corresponding pilot group has/negotiates?
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