Virtual Base in MCO
04-24-2018, 08:55 AM
#221
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: Stretch DC-9 Gear Slinger
Posts: 615
Originally Posted by Han Solo
I think the vote was a good move. If SF is right, then VB didn't matter much to the company anyway and thus weren't terribly valuable as negotiating capital. If he was wrong then the MEC just prevented a harmful contract stipulation which could have been considered "status quo" when C2019 negotiations roll into town. I'll throw down right now and say C2019 will make the last round of negotiations look like afternoon tea with the queen. I say 3 years of pain, who will take the under on that? 
04-24-2018, 09:17 AM
#222
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,258
Originally Posted by Han Solo
I think the vote was a good move. If SF is right, then VB didn't matter much to the company anyway and thus weren't terribly valuable as negotiating capital. If he was wrong then the MEC just prevented a harmful contract stipulation which could have been considered "status quo" when C2019 negotiations roll into town. I'll throw down right now and say C2019 will make the last round of negotiations look like afternoon tea with the queen. I say 3 years of pain, who will take the under on that?
04-24-2018, 09:40 AM
#223
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Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 429
Originally Posted by Gunfighter
Fully agree with this sentiment. It applies equally to aircraft deliveries, JV scope, SLIs, etc. The street runs both ways. IMHO, the MEC vote had more to do with JVs than it ever had to do with VBs.
04-24-2018, 09:41 AM
#224
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Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Fastest Hunk of Junk in the Galaxy
Posts: 1,657
Originally Posted by JamesBond
and no retro. Certainly not 'full' retro. But ya'll are good with that I assume.
Standing by for incoming.
Standing by for incoming.
04-24-2018, 01:26 PM
#225
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Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Originally Posted by Han Solo
TBH, based on how the company has treated recent negotiations highlighted by the recent chairman's letter, I doubt they'll have a contract I can vote "YES" on for far longer than the 3 years I predict it will take to hammer out C19.
04-24-2018, 07:21 PM
#226
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,456
Originally Posted by JamesBond
I am guessing that demographic doesn't give a rat's ass about making you or I whole in any regard.
What you can bank on with that demographic is they will shut the place down over scope. The majority of new hires understand the impact of selling scope.
04-24-2018, 08:14 PM
#227
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: Stretch DC-9 Gear Slinger
Posts: 615
Originally Posted by JamesBond
It will be interesting to see what the demographic says is important. If you have more than 7 years on the property, you will be in the minority by the time we exchange openers. You will DEFINITELY be in the minority if it takes 3 years. Not making any kind of judgement, just an observation. I am guessing that demographic doesn't give a rat's ass about making you or I whole in any regard.
04-25-2018, 05:02 AM
#228
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Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Fastest Hunk of Junk in the Galaxy
Posts: 1,657
Originally Posted by JamesBond
It will be interesting to see what the demographic says is important. If you have more than 7 years on the property, you will be in the minority by the time we exchange openers. You will DEFINITELY be in the minority if it takes 3 years. Not making any kind of judgement, just an observation. I am guessing that demographic doesn't give a rat's ass about making you or I whole in any regard.
04-25-2018, 09:57 AM
#229
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by Han Solo
It's less about not giving a rat's ass about another work group, but instead caring a whole lot about your own. It's a 0-sum gain, if those who lost their retirement are "made whole" it will most definitely be at the expense of the pilots who aren't. We both know it won't be out of Ed's salary. Any TA the union brings us with benefits that aren't equally distributed is doomed to failure. It would be a great company negotiating tactic though, keep the pilots divided and continue to delay any TA ratification. It would save them quite a bit of money I believe.
Especially when we're on the precipice of very dangerous Scope negotiations. Divide and conquer at its finest, and it will cost us dearly, especially if we're chasing our tails over a pipe dream force multiplied by emotion.
04-25-2018, 12:57 PM
#230
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,502
Originally Posted by Han Solo
It's less about not giving a rat's ass about another work group, but instead caring a whole lot about your own. It's a 0-sum gain, if those who lost their retirement are "made whole" it will most definitely be at the expense of the pilots who aren't. We both know it won't be out of Ed's salary. Any TA the union brings us with benefits that aren't equally distributed is doomed to failure. It would be a great company negotiating tactic though, keep the pilots divided and continue to delay any TA ratification. It would save them quite a bit of money I believe.
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