Scheduling committee resigns
06-22-2018, 01:37 PM
#171
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 837
Originally Posted by newKnow
Because, those dead zoners made a lot of sacrifices for you to have what you have today.
Just because the company writes your paycheck, doesn't mean they are the ones who should get credit for signing it.
Most of what you get has been paid for by the very dead zoners you don't want to spin your wheels for, with:
1.) paycuts,
2.) picket lines,
3.) strikes,
4.) lost retirements,
5.) downgrades,
6.) furloughs, &
7.) mergers.
Nothing is guaranteed in this line of work. Be careful.
One little blip, and the very pilots you don't want to waste time on today, tomorrow might be the ones who are paying for you and your family's health insurance while you are on furlough.
Not. Gonna. Happen?
Ask 1999-2001 hires.
Just because the company writes your paycheck, doesn't mean they are the ones who should get credit for signing it.
Most of what you get has been paid for by the very dead zoners you don't want to spin your wheels for, with:
1.) paycuts,
2.) picket lines,
3.) strikes,
4.) lost retirements,
5.) downgrades,
6.) furloughs, &
7.) mergers.
Nothing is guaranteed in this line of work. Be careful.
One little blip, and the very pilots you don't want to waste time on today, tomorrow might be the ones who are paying for you and your family's health insurance while you are on furlough.
Not. Gonna. Happen?
Ask 1999-2001 hires.
06-22-2018, 03:09 PM
#172
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by JamesBond
Increasing the 401k is a limited benefit. A large chunk of the pilots already get that filled up (or can if they so choose). We can do better. I'm not sure why you aren't interested in retiree medical. After the money, it is the biggest piece of the puzzle to having a good retirement.
I don't usually use CNN as a reference but this story is pretty good starter.
How much money you'll need for health care costs in retirement
If you don't want to read the article, it says the average couple will spend $265,000 in health care costs NOT INCLUDING long term care. (I have a long term care policy... do you?)
Maybe Tom could chime in with his opinion about that and give you a real world perspective.
Of course Plan B is to vote socialist and let those still working take care of us thru their higher taxes.
GREAT question regarding the PS payout. One could certainly make that argument.
I don't usually use CNN as a reference but this story is pretty good starter.
How much money you'll need for health care costs in retirement
If you don't want to read the article, it says the average couple will spend $265,000 in health care costs NOT INCLUDING long term care. (I have a long term care policy... do you?)
Maybe Tom could chime in with his opinion about that and give you a real world perspective.
Of course Plan B is to vote socialist and let those still working take care of us thru their higher taxes.
GREAT question regarding the PS payout. One could certainly make that argument.
James,
You must have missed this from my post. I happen to think retiree medical could be a huge win for the Pilot group.
I personally would prefer increasing the 401K and improvements to retiree medical. All Pilots will benefit from this.
As far as the 401K bump that would be for the more junior guys with the retiree medical aspect to appeal to the older crowd. This could actually unite the Pilot group by appealing to all demographics of our seniority list.
Additionally once the more senior guys hit the the 401K limit the addition would come as extra money each month. Between the medical aspect and the 401K bump we are talking serious money.
Scoop
06-22-2018, 04:00 PM
#173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Up front
Posts: 962
Originally Posted by Scoop
James,
You must have missed this from my post. I happen to think retiree medical could be a huge win for the Pilot group.
I personally would prefer increasing the 401K and improvements to retiree medical. All Pilots will benefit from this.
As far as the 401K bump that would be for the more junior guys with the retiree medical aspect to appeal to the older crowd. This could actually unite the Pilot group by appealing to all demographics of our seniority list.
Additionally once the more senior guys hit the the 401K limit the addition would come as extra money each month. Between the medical aspect and the 401K bump we are talking serious money.
Scoop
You must have missed this from my post. I happen to think retiree medical could be a huge win for the Pilot group.
I personally would prefer increasing the 401K and improvements to retiree medical. All Pilots will benefit from this.
As far as the 401K bump that would be for the more junior guys with the retiree medical aspect to appeal to the older crowd. This could actually unite the Pilot group by appealing to all demographics of our seniority list.
Additionally once the more senior guys hit the the 401K limit the addition would come as extra money each month. Between the medical aspect and the 401K bump we are talking serious money.
Scoop
I flew with our MEC Vice awhile back and said many of the same things. A boost to DC helps everyone out. You either get to add more to the 401k or more money as DPSP Cash which is equivalent to an increase in regular pay. This benefits all pilots. Medical/Retiree medical benefits is another great avenue to improve for all of us. We will hopefully all retire at some point and need those benefits. For active members our coverage is not industry leading. It should be industry leading and have equivalent value for those who elect to not use it. This would benefit all of us.
06-23-2018, 03:32 AM
#174
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by Falcon20
Like button pressed!!
I flew with our MEC Vice awhile back and said many of the same things. A boost to DC helps everyone out. You either get to add more to the 401k or more money as DPSP Cash which is equivalent to an increase in regular pay. This benefits all pilots. Medical/Retiree medical benefits is another great avenue to improve for all of us. We will hopefully all retire at some point and need those benefits. For active members our coverage is not industry leading. It should be industry leading and have equivalent value for those who elect to not use it. This would benefit all of us.
I flew with our MEC Vice awhile back and said many of the same things. A boost to DC helps everyone out. You either get to add more to the 401k or more money as DPSP Cash which is equivalent to an increase in regular pay. This benefits all pilots. Medical/Retiree medical benefits is another great avenue to improve for all of us. We will hopefully all retire at some point and need those benefits. For active members our coverage is not industry leading. It should be industry leading and have equivalent value for those who elect to not use it. This would benefit all of us.
Sum total if you live in high tax states can be 55% lost due to taxes...you get to keep 45 dollars out of every $100 earned
So, work on tax advantaged things first because it may be possible to get 2 times the bang for the buck
Medical MAY fall into this criteria
Just food for thought
I know, I know, .. high taxes is my problem not yours if you are a new hire.... I've heard it all before on this thread " You're not gonna carry my water and it's a non starter"
06-23-2018, 04:33 AM
#175
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Up front
Posts: 962
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
Just so that it is understood.....401 bump does not affect us ALL pilots equally. If you already hit your 401 limit, the DPSP excess is taxed at federal level, state level and at the Obama care 4% on everything over 200k level. AND... lest we forget..ALPA dues of 1.6 %
Sum total if you live in high tax states can be 55% lost due to taxes...you get to keep 45 dollars out of every $100 earned
So, work on tax advantaged things first because it may be possible to get 2 times the bang for the buck
Medical MAY fall into this criteria
Just food for thought
I know, I know, .. high taxes is my problem not yours if you are a new hire.... I've heard it all before on this thread " You're not gonna carry my water and it's a non starter"
Sum total if you live in high tax states can be 55% lost due to taxes...you get to keep 45 dollars out of every $100 earned
So, work on tax advantaged things first because it may be possible to get 2 times the bang for the buck
Medical MAY fall into this criteria
Just food for thought
I know, I know, .. high taxes is my problem not yours if you are a new hire.... I've heard it all before on this thread " You're not gonna carry my water and it's a non starter"
I would like the DPSP cash to be given as cash, under a table, and invisible to the IRS!
Oh and ALPA shouldn’t get to take a cut from profit sharing or DPSP cash.
06-23-2018, 06:21 AM
#176
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 269
Originally Posted by JamesBond
I am actually one of those that shrug because I have moved on because there was nothing I could do about it. But like I said earlier, you have already had the world handed to you on a silver platter. NWA guys struck. (I am DAL south) Some got furloughed (I did not, but I sat sideways for 6 years). None of us have retirements of any significance because it was stolen from us. You will be a mainline captain in 3 years. A little gratitude, appreciation and recognition for those that sacrificed would go a long way towards getting what you want. Right now I have zero sympathy for your demographic because of clowns like you posting the trash you are posting. You are acting entitled.
There are thousands of our pilots with opinions like Crown. We better get retiree stuff handled in C2019 because it will be DOA beyond that as the younger generation won’t “carry water” for anyone else.
06-23-2018, 06:23 AM
#177
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
I am confident people much smarter than me are investigating possibilities. Delta views a 1% pay raise as the same cost as a 1% bump in DC. From the pilots perspective, that same 1% might garner more bang for the buck if the company bought an annuity, had some sort of retiree medical plan or, or, or.
Just like some of the newsbs feel that they are "subsidizing" DZers whatever, anything that helps newbs in escalating DC contributions has an inverse benefit to 12 year pay captains due to deleterious tax ramifications
Therein lies the rub
Just like some of the newsbs feel that they are "subsidizing" DZers whatever, anything that helps newbs in escalating DC contributions has an inverse benefit to 12 year pay captains due to deleterious tax ramifications
Therein lies the rub
06-23-2018, 06:55 AM
#178
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 1,306
What about company contributions to your HSA? Not sure if that has been discussed. It's not a huge amount of money but it's a great tax shelter. You can use it for medical expenses up to age 65 (but let it grow instead if you can) then used tax free for medical insurance premiums or taxed just like an IRA when used for other purposes after age 65. It also doesn't have any required minimum distribution like an IRA does.
06-23-2018, 07:05 AM
#179
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: 320/fo
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by Scoop
James you ask:
How is the company doing this?
And then you post:
If junior there doesn't want to help us recover some of our lost retirement, then I DGAF about his future either.
I think you answered your own question. FWIW I am in the deadzoner group myself, I think. I also would like to see improvements to the pension but we are never going to be "made whole." That is a pipe dream that is unrealistic. Life is not fair - we got hosed.
I voted No on LOA 51 but the majority of DAL Pilots voted yes. My side lost, I have moved on. If we were not willing to fight for our pension when 100% of voting Pilots had an interest in a DB how do we expect young guys today to fight on our behalf?
I am 100% for retirement improvements but any plan that takes from Joe Junior to pay for Sam Senior will divide the Pilot group and be exploited by the company at our expense.
Scoop
How is the company doing this?
And then you post:
If junior there doesn't want to help us recover some of our lost retirement, then I DGAF about his future either.
I think you answered your own question. FWIW I am in the deadzoner group myself, I think. I also would like to see improvements to the pension but we are never going to be "made whole." That is a pipe dream that is unrealistic. Life is not fair - we got hosed.
I voted No on LOA 51 but the majority of DAL Pilots voted yes. My side lost, I have moved on. If we were not willing to fight for our pension when 100% of voting Pilots had an interest in a DB how do we expect young guys today to fight on our behalf?
I am 100% for retirement improvements but any plan that takes from Joe Junior to pay for Sam Senior will divide the Pilot group and be exploited by the company at our expense.
Scoop
06-23-2018, 07:10 AM
#180
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: Here and there
Posts: 1,906
Originally Posted by Hawaii50
What about company contributions to your HSA? Not sure if that has been discussed. It's not a huge amount of money but it's a great tax shelter. You can use it for medical expenses up to age 65 (but let it grow instead if you can) then used tax free for medical insurance premiums or taxed just like an IRA when used for other purposes after age 65. It also doesn't have any required minimum distribution like an IRA does.
That would require all pilots be enrolled in the HSA medical plans to be an equal benefit. Unless Congress changes the rules governing these plans, along with increasing the max amount to be saved, and even though I am for this type of added benefit from the company, I don’t think it’ll get much traction within the pilot group.
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