Dorn

NO PENSION!
All you have to do is look at how great that went for the greater part of private corporations in the U.S. in the 20th and the 21st century including the airlines ( I'm sure many of you don't need that history lesson). Don't get me started on the disaster of public pension plans such as CalPERS who are teetering on disaster as well. Its a terrible idea and all you're doing to setting up guys who will be here 20-35+ years from now in a high probably of serious finical pain. Please let this die now. Getting a pension will come at a serious high cost (what do we have to give up) that I fear will only end up being taken from me when I need it most.

Sputnik

Well sober up. Or drink more. I wanna hear your thoughts.

chuck416

Gunfighter, your “logic”, well, simply isn’t.

“Pilots on the property now had over a decade to prepare and benefited the most from post bankruptcy pay and profit-sharing”.

Essentially what you’ve said is that pilots on the property, post bankruptcy, suffered the most loss of pay. Which is true. And then you have extrapolated that into some sort of positive! That is quite a leap in logic. And it is contrary to the reality (that post bankruptcy pilots benefit from most). We were under post bankruptcy pay rates for about 1/3 of a normal 30 year career. (And even now, but just for inflation, the buying power of our monthly pay simply is not for it was in 2003.). It’s the equivalent of saying “I was tied to the whipping post longer therefore I’ve benefited the most from time spent with the whip”.
And another thing. Profit-sharing was something pilots (on the property at the time of bankruptcy) received in exchange for a D/B pension that we owned at the time. It’s been more than one person’s opinion that it would’ve been totally fair to have profit-sharing distributed only to that group of pilots who actually gave up a D/B pension. But we didn’t do that. We negotiated profit-sharing for all pilots, up and down the seniority list. Those already on the list, AND those yet to be hired.
Rant over

Dexter

Ironically, I’m watching “Go Down Swinging The 1999 Open.” You know the one, the guy had an epic collapse during the final round. Seems appropriately fitting.

chuck416

Gunfighter,
perhaps I misunderstood your original post. After rereading your opening statement I am just a little confused as to where you stand on the pension shortfall. Hope I didn’t take anything out of context that you wrote, and focused on that and run off a tangent in a direction you didn’t intend to take the conversation. I do want to keep thread alive and respectful

4fans

This is the part nobody clamoring to be made whole ever gives an answer for. There are thousands that have already retired. If this is about doing the honorable thing, then everyone since bankruptcy should be made whole, right?

I think the reason some of the post bankruptcy hires (such as myself) struggle with this concept is that we can’t figure out how this could ever be accomplished in a way that actually corrected past wrongs without it being a windfall for some and not enough for others.

Every single pilot was hosed by the lost or frozen pension to a varying degree. And many of us weren’t hosed at all. Yet. But you know how that goes in this industry.

Peoloto

This is so one sided, and it will waste all our negotiating capital for ANY other improvements. This letter better not get sent.

tunes

bad bad bad bad idea....nothing to back it up with and this will divide the pilot group tremendously...i'd go from fully supporting this MEC to wtf are you guys doing

hockeypilot44

You are a disappontment. You live in fantasy land and only care about your demographic. Us at the bottom have been punished for years because of the regional outsourcing, bankruptcies, and age 65 as the final kick to the junk. We are not against you yet, but we sure as hell will be if you go for a pension at our expense.

Are you trying to divide an already divided pilot group farther?

Xray678

What are you willing to trade for major gains? Yes we have leverage. The company will have a training problem. But if you think the company will just give us “major gains” without us giving up something to help solve their training problem you don’t understand how negotiations work.