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Old 07-12-2018, 06:14 PM   #1  
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Default Return from medical leave training question

I had my medical certificate revoked by the FAA in Dec 2016 due to complications from a medical incident. My condition for all practical purposes has been cured and I have been working with the AMAS folks in CO to get my medical certificate back. I am still working on getting some documentation and labs the FAA has requested, but anticipate getting back on Delta property hopefully in the next couple months. Under the PWA it is my understanding that I am able to come back to Delta to any category if someone junior to me was awarded that category during an AE. I was on the 737 before my medical was revoked, but depending on the results of the current AE bid I am looking hard at coming back into a widebody position. My question is what sort of training timeline would I expect? I understand this AE is going to generate a massive amount of training. If I do come back to a WB where would Delta put me on the training schedule? Would I be expected to be placed along with the AE training timeline based on seniority or would I expect some sort of expedited training to get me flying again ASAP? Or would Delta expect me to get "recurrent in the 737" (not sure how long that training would be) before starting WB training? Anyone with personal experience in this scenario? Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:37 PM   #2  
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Not sure to your entire question Dr., but I had a heart procedure that required 3 months of sit time and medical on hold as a result. So 3 months short term disability and medical was cleared. I called Delta at 5 p.m. on a Wed. Afternoon, at 5:30 got a call from training to report 2 days later for quick mini requal course! So don't be surprised when you call in well to possibly be scheduled immediately for 737 school. Welcome back by the way.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:03 AM   #3  
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Once you have a medical in hand Delta has to start paying you. Expect training quickly on the equipment you choose.
Welcome back!
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:37 AM   #4  
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I was in a similar situation 18 months ago, and also bid 'up' to WB (767-400). They started paying me the day I got back at the -400 pay rate. It took 7 weeks to start training, partly because you do the first 85% of the ER course before 'converting' to the -400 and aligning the two sims in the proper order was a scheduling challenge. Obviously, if you go back to the 330/350/777, that particular issue wouldn't apply. I got the distinct impression 7 weeks was WAY longer than they wanted to wait.

Though you would need at least a little time to do the academics, you should at least expect to start training pretty quick, but enjoy extra time should you get it - though I would recommend making smart use of any time you get to study up. You'll also have to do the QCQ's for all the time you were out, in your 'new' aircraft (much of which will make little sense since you are not qual'd yet...) I presume they still have a Worldwide Ops LMS course you will need to do (for pay).

They won't necessarily rush you the iPad, so you might bring that up ASAP with Pilot Assist. Brush up on ARCOS, and a few other things that have changed since you've been out. You will also have the opportunity to adjust your insurances and such. DPMA has a pretty good 'return' checklist. Congrats, you'll love the WB life. Welcome Back!
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:44 AM   #5  
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Thanks for the response! That is exactly what I was hoping for. Hope to be on the line real soon. Have enjoyed my time off, but itching to get back flying.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:20 AM   #6  
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Originally Posted by Dr Rosenrosen View Post
I had my medical certificate revoked by the FAA in Dec 2016 due to complications from a medical incident. My condition for all practical purposes has been cured and I have been working with the AMAS folks in CO to get my medical certificate back. I am still working on getting some documentation and labs the FAA has requested, but anticipate getting back on Delta property hopefully in the next couple months. Under the PWA it is my understanding that I am able to come back to Delta to any category if someone junior to me was awarded that category during an AE. I was on the 737 before my medical was revoked, but depending on the results of the current AE bid I am looking hard at coming back into a widebody position. My question is what sort of training timeline would I expect? I understand this AE is going to generate a massive amount of training. If I do come back to a WB where would Delta put me on the training schedule? Would I be expected to be placed along with the AE training timeline based on seniority or would I expect some sort of expedited training to get me flying again ASAP? Or would Delta expect me to get "recurrent in the 737" (not sure how long that training would be) before starting WB training? Anyone with personal experience in this scenario? Thanks in advance.
Congrats on the cure! Welcome back!
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:22 AM   #7  
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Thanks for the response! That is exactly what I was hoping for. Hope to be on the line real soon. Have enjoyed my time off, but itching to get back flying.
Doc,

I hope to be shortly behind you. Just found out that one of the FAA boards that needs to review my stuff pushed the file aside when they met in June, due to mass (11 CD ROMs/1000 pages). I'm waiting to find out when they convene again. Damn, the wheels of bureaucracy turn slowly! From what I know, the other responders are on the money, although I think you'd be on the 737 unless you participated in an AE or Surplus bid along the way. But I'm not sure about that aspect. My situation is a bit different, as I have a displacement from the 744 to exercise. Which is, as you mentioned, an opportunity to bump in wherever my seniority could hold, since I was disallowed from bid participation while "out."

My impression is you'll be on the fast track for requal training, with little regard to seniority, and that you'd likely be slotted into one of the next spots that exist or could be created. It's probably just a matter of getting some sim slots and 2 instructors scheduled (one for seat suport), since the odds are long for pairing you with an identical-need requal partner. With just 7+ months away, I think you'd be a short course requal, which I did a couple of years back on the 7ER. About a week in ATL as I recall, followed by a bit of overkill on OE/TOE.

In nutshell, I have found little support from within Delta while I have been away. Neither of the seemingly appropriate domicile flight ops seemed willing to claim me as theirs, but I have had some good assistance from a particular Regional Director of Flight Operations. So answers to the sorts of questions you pose are available with a bit of hunting, but nobody is knocking at the door trying to help.

If you have any words of wisdom or helpful info regarding the return to work process, please PM me. Best of luck!

- Rich
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:24 PM   #8  
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Doc,

I think you'd be on the 737 unless you participated in an AE or Surplus bid along the way. But I'm not sure about that aspect. My situation is a bit different, as I have a displacement from the 744 to exercise. Which is, as you mentioned, an opportunity to bump in wherever my seniority could hold, since I was disallowed from bid participation while "out."

My impression is you'll be on the fast track for requal training, with little regard to seniority, and that you'd likely be slotted into one of the next spots that exist or could be created.
Rich (zippinbye), I'm not looking at it, but the contract is pretty specific on returning from LTD (more than 6 months out). You essentially get to 'pick' your spot - as you alluded - so long as someone junior to you bid it while out - which if you were on the whale would be quite a few bids... Even with your 74 Displacement bid, I think you would do no worse coming off LTD, since you can 'see' where you would go, but you would be afforded the same contractual protection as a result of either situation. Bottom line, you will have a bevy of options to select your place. IMO, it's a very nice piece of the contract to keep us from getting hosed (in a second way) by virtue of temporarily losing your medical. I found the company to be very helpful when I returned, and they have also let me Non-Rev a couple of times on STD when I asked for a valid reason (i.e. not just vacation). Also, DPMA has their reps that are helpful in getting some answers to these kinds of questions, as I think they have another avenue of inquiry. Sorry to hear of the FAA delays, that sucks. Hope you get back soon!

Doc, if my experience is any guide, you will absolutely not do anything in the 737. Disability and the PWA changes things, as I understand it. As I said, 7 weeks seemed to be a long wait to the company, but I think it was due to the peculiarities of the -400 not having a stand-alone syllabus. (I happened to get paired with an upgrading ER captain, whom I left when he had 2-3 sims remaining). If you return to the 330/350/777, I would expect them to shoehorn you in ASAP, even if they had to use seat fillers and a non-standard flow in the sim (i.e. not consecutive days and odd periods), but that's just a guess. Good luck. Let us know what they do with you, as I'm sure there are others (like Doc) for whom we can pay it forward. Good luck!
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:40 PM   #9  
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Rich (zippinbye), I'm not looking at it, but the contract is pretty specific on returning from LTD (more than 6 months out). You essentially get to 'pick' your spot - as you alluded - so long as someone junior to you bid it while out - which if you were on the whale would be quite a few bids... Even with your 74 Displacement bid, I think you would do no worse coming off LTD, since you can 'see' where you would go, but you would be afforded the same contractual protection as a result of either situation. Bottom line, you will have a bevy of options to select your place. IMO, it's a very nice piece of the contract to keep us from getting hosed (in a second way) by virtue of temporarily losing your medical. I found the company to be very helpful when I returned, and they have also let me Non-Rev a couple of times on STD when I asked for a valid reason (i.e. not just vacation). Also, DPMA has their reps that are helpful in getting some answers to these kinds of questions, as I think they have another avenue of inquiry. Sorry to hear of the FAA delays, that sucks. Hope you get back soon!

Doc, if my experience is any guide, you will absolutely not do anything in the 737. Disability and the PWA changes things, as I understand it. As I said, 7 weeks seemed to be a long wait to the company, but I think it was due to the peculiarities of the -400 not having a stand-alone syllabus. (I happened to get paired with an upgrading ER captain, whom I left when he had 2-3 sims remaining). If you return to the 330/350/777, I would expect them to shoehorn you in ASAP, even if they had to use seat fillers and a non-standard flow in the sim (i.e. not consecutive days and odd periods), but that's just a guess. Good luck. Let us know what they do with you, as I'm sure there are others (like Doc) for whom we can pay it forward. Good luck!
Fang, thanks for the clarification regarding position entitlements relative to LTD beyond 6 months; I kind of have the blinders on, only focused on my own specific situation, of course. Glad to hear you experienced a supportive environment in your return process ... I'm counting on the same based on the vibes I'm getting. My point regrading lack of a supportive atmosphere during the term of my core disability could be a result of my own specific odd circumstances - not intending to disparage Delta in any fashion. There was no hand-holding called for in the PWA and none received. If I have an opportunity to affect any change once the journey is complete, I'll be commenting on the need or a more robust support system. Thank you for the encouraging words.

- Rich
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:33 AM   #10  
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Rich, no worries at all. Didn't think you were dumping on the company or the process. With 14000+ of us, the squeaky wheels probably get the most grease... But I know what you mean - It IS frustrating sometimes when there are so many uncertainties out of our control, be it FAA or company, and it's hard to know what (or when) to expect. A lot of questions can't readily be answered. Hope you get settled soon. I was out for nearly a year, but it was kinda like riding a bike, though 7 weeks to study did help. Good luck!
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