Base, aircraft, seniority
12-08-2018, 12:15 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 938
Originally Posted by TED74
Ok, so after how many sequential AEs would you feel comfortable saying a guy can't hold something?
I could be on an island, but if I can't effect a change from my current category to the one I want, I don't think I can hold it. I can say I'm senior to the plug, but that doesn't do me any good (yet). That's particularly true when unlike other carriers, we don't have a regular and reliable timeline to shuffle or trade positions.
I could be on an island, but if I can't effect a change from my current category to the one I want, I don't think I can hold it. I can say I'm senior to the plug, but that doesn't do me any good (yet). That's particularly true when unlike other carriers, we don't have a regular and reliable timeline to shuffle or trade positions.
Being senior to the plug doesn’t do this scenario justice though. It’s not even close. The most junior pilot on our list that was hired in April 1996 would have 107 pilots junior to them and sit at 67.67% in the ATL320A category for the JAN 2019 bid period. There are numerous AEs where they could have gotten the award over the last several years. Just not the last 2.
Saying “senior to the plug” paints a picture that they are are just off the bottom. That ain’t the case here by any stretch of the imagination.
12-08-2018, 02:06 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 1,216
Originally Posted by Scoop
Not being able to hold something and not being awarded it on any specific AE are two separate issues.
If there are no openings in a category that Pilot seniority # 1 bid does that mean he can't hold it?
I would say it means he couldn't get it on that specific AE.
If there are no openings in a category that Pilot seniority # 1 bid does that mean he can't hold it?
I would say it means he couldn't get it on that specific AE.
12-08-2018, 06:51 PM
#43
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by TED74
Ok, so after how many sequential AEs would you feel comfortable saying a guy can't hold something?
I could be on an island, but if I can't effect a change from my current category to the one I want, I don't think I can hold it. I can say I'm senior to the plug, but that doesn't do me any good (yet). That's particularly true when unlike other carriers, we don't have a regular and reliable timeline to shuffle or trade positions.
I could be on an island, but if I can't effect a change from my current category to the one I want, I don't think I can hold it. I can say I'm senior to the plug, but that doesn't do me any good (yet). That's particularly true when unlike other carriers, we don't have a regular and reliable timeline to shuffle or trade positions.
If you are on an island and a rescue boat comes and you decide to wait for the next boat, well I just hope that next boat comes quickly.
Your point of view is hard to grasp for many who sat on the panel for years, moved backwards for years, and have been furloughed for years.
I guess it's good because it's a sign that things are going pretty well.
Scoop
Last edited by Scoop; 12-08-2018 at 08:17 PM.
12-09-2018, 02:27 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,909
Originally Posted by Scoop
How did guys junior to him get it? Pilots junior to him bid it successfully and he choose not to bid it.
If you are on an island and a rescue boat comes and you decide to wait for the next boat, well I just hope that next boat comes quickly.
Your point of view is hard to grasp for many who sat on the panel for years, moved backwards for years, and have been furloughed for years.
I guess it's good because it's a sign that things are going pretty well.
Scoop
If you are on an island and a rescue boat comes and you decide to wait for the next boat, well I just hope that next boat comes quickly.
Your point of view is hard to grasp for many who sat on the panel for years, moved backwards for years, and have been furloughed for years.
I guess it's good because it's a sign that things are going pretty well.
Scoop
BUT...if I couldn't get in that first boat because I was still clamoring down the cliff from my signaling position (seat lock)... and the next three boats fill up before I can get in (vacancies go senior to me)... and then no boats come for 18 months... could I really hold a seat on a rescue boat all along?
Plenty of folks senior to the wonder-captains (2 yr 88As) couldn't get that award after the original MOAB. Do we still say they can hold it? I personally think that is misleading.
I am senior to many of the people in the next category I'm eyeing but couldn't get it on the last two AEs. So when people ask if I can hold it, I find it cleaner to say "I'm not sure" than "yes." Is that untrue? And do people who were furloughed or who moved backward really feel differently about my answer than those who were or have not?
Take a look at 350B, which went to 10,4XX. Anyone senior to that COULD have held it (although only one person at a time) on the last AE. I'll bet you one fake internet beer that that seat doesn't get awarded to anyone within 1,000 numbers of that individual for two years minimum, maybe longer.
12-12-2018, 05:47 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 1,216
Originally Posted by TED74
I'm not hard over on this, it's just semantics to me. And this case is a bit of an odd one because of how high up the category the pilot would/will be (50% ish).
BUT...if I couldn't get in that first boat because I was still clamoring down the cliff from my signaling position (seat lock)... and the next three boats fill up before I can get in (vacancies go senior to me)... and then no boats come for 18 months... could I really hold a seat on a rescue boat all along?
Plenty of folks senior to the wonder-captains (2 yr 88As) couldn't get that award after the original MOAB. Do we still say they can hold it? I personally think that is misleading.
I am senior to many of the people in the next category I'm eyeing but couldn't get it on the last two AEs. So when people ask if I can hold it, I find it cleaner to say "I'm not sure" than "yes." Is that untrue? And do people who were furloughed or who moved backward really feel differently about my answer than those who were or have not?
Take a look at 350B, which went to 10,4XX. Anyone senior to that COULD have held it (although only one person at a time) on the last AE. I'll bet you one fake internet beer that that seat doesn't get awarded to anyone within 1,000 numbers of that individual for two years minimum, maybe longer.
BUT...if I couldn't get in that first boat because I was still clamoring down the cliff from my signaling position (seat lock)... and the next three boats fill up before I can get in (vacancies go senior to me)... and then no boats come for 18 months... could I really hold a seat on a rescue boat all along?
Plenty of folks senior to the wonder-captains (2 yr 88As) couldn't get that award after the original MOAB. Do we still say they can hold it? I personally think that is misleading.
I am senior to many of the people in the next category I'm eyeing but couldn't get it on the last two AEs. So when people ask if I can hold it, I find it cleaner to say "I'm not sure" than "yes." Is that untrue? And do people who were furloughed or who moved backward really feel differently about my answer than those who were or have not?
Take a look at 350B, which went to 10,4XX. Anyone senior to that COULD have held it (although only one person at a time) on the last AE. I'll bet you one fake internet beer that that seat doesn't get awarded to anyone within 1,000 numbers of that individual for two years minimum, maybe longer.
12-12-2018, 06:23 PM
#49
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by astrojet
I got hired in apr 1996 and cannot hold Capt A320 in ATL....not even reserve...A position will return to 10 years once the MD-88's are gone
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