Vacation
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
When a senior (19+ year) pilot retires, that removes 5 weeks of 'pilot productivity loss' at the top of whatever pay-scale said pilot resides.
When we hire a new pilot, we're adding 1-2 weeks of 'pilot productivity loss' at the lower end of the pay scales.
Does the massive number of retirements and the resulting shift (younger/newer) of the pilot group influence our leverage/negotiating capital in this area? I know that in terms of the whole, this may be a drop in the bucket.
But to me it seems like the retirements are reducing a cost of a 'senior' pilot group.
No offense intended to the senior pilots; I'm just jealous I won't ever hit the 19+ level on the vacation scale. (hired older)
When we hire a new pilot, we're adding 1-2 weeks of 'pilot productivity loss' at the lower end of the pay scales.
Does the massive number of retirements and the resulting shift (younger/newer) of the pilot group influence our leverage/negotiating capital in this area? I know that in terms of the whole, this may be a drop in the bucket.
But to me it seems like the retirements are reducing a cost of a 'senior' pilot group.
No offense intended to the senior pilots; I'm just jealous I won't ever hit the 19+ level on the vacation scale. (hired older)
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,930
100% agree. A week of vacation maybe gives you a couple extra days off a month, that's it! Needs to be worth 5:15. Nothing else makes sense.
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,242
Vacation and Reserves
Keep hearing folks say that bidding reserves in a month when you have vacation is better because it pays more. I tried deciphering the PWA to figure out why that’s true, but I can’t.
Could someone please explain / show their work?
Let’s assume 30 day bid period and 1 week of vacation. ALV is worst case 72 hours.
TIA!
Could someone please explain / show their work?
Let’s assume 30 day bid period and 1 week of vacation. ALV is worst case 72 hours.
TIA!
#14
Keep hearing folks say that bidding reserves in a month when you have vacation is better because it pays more. I tried deciphering the PWA to figure out why that’s true, but I can’t.
Could someone please explain / show their work?
Let’s assume 30 day bid period and 1 week of vacation. ALV is worst case 72 hours.
TIA!
Could someone please explain / show their work?
Let’s assume 30 day bid period and 1 week of vacation. ALV is worst case 72 hours.
TIA!
#15
For 99% of the jobs in this world a week of vacation is 1/4 of a typical month. A week of vacation at Delta is 1/4 of our ALV. Does it make sense if we call it 1/4 ALV Paid Time Off? We work 4 days per week. Should we make a week of vacation 4 days worth 5:15 each? I'm not against 5:15 per day, it's just an effort to help you understand how a week of vacation in the pilot world compares to the other 99%
#16
Option 1: 5.25 per day at the current weeks(assuming maxed) =183.75hrs of vacation.
Option 2: 7 weeks at 3.75 per day=183.75
How would those two options differ? --> My opinion
5 weeks you could pick-up more time in vacation months(because less time is blocked off on your schedule). Which means, some folks would pick-up more to make more.
7 weeks means you can't pick up as much--> Less productivity increased staffing requirement(relative to option 1).
Bottom Line- Vacation needs to be increased some-how.
I think there are a lot of people that would like Option 1, but my argument is it is more productive. Additionally, I think it would give more flexibility to people that can't hold certain weeks of vacation, because you could work your schedule based on the higher value.
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,930
For 99% of the jobs in this world a week of vacation is 1/4 of a typical month. A week of vacation at Delta is 1/4 of our ALV. Does it make sense if we call it 1/4 ALV Paid Time Off? We work 4 days per week. Should we make a week of vacation 4 days worth 5:15 each? I'm not against 5:15 per day, it's just an effort to help you understand how a week of vacation in the pilot world compares to the other 99%
#18
For 99% of the jobs in this world a week of vacation is 1/4 of a typical month. A week of vacation at Delta is 1/4 of our ALV. Does it make sense if we call it 1/4 ALV Paid Time Off? We work 4 days per week. Should we make a week of vacation 4 days worth 5:15 each? I'm not against 5:15 per day, it's just an effort to help you understand how a week of vacation in the pilot world compares to the other 99%
#19
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,851
Bottom line - DAL Pilots produce more revenue which directly affects profits. Why do you even break out operating revenue? The reason I ask is that if we look at block hours we are taking into account the DAL “system” which includes numerous fleets with all the inherent inefficiencies that they bring along.
If you think it is fair to compare straight block hours when the DAL “system”forces inefficiencies then let’s also look at all of the revenue that the system produces.
DAL Pilots are more productive than SWA Pilots when looking at revenue production.
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,221
So when measuring operating revenue we are more productive than SWA Pilots. When measuring total revenue we are even more productive.
Bottom line - DAL Pilots produce more revenue which directly affects profits. Why do you even break out operating revenue? The reason I ask is that if we look at block hours we are taking into account the DAL “system” which includes numerous fleets with all the inherent inefficiencies that they bring along.
If you think it is fair to compare straight block hours when the DAL “system”forces inefficiencies then let’s also look at all of the revenue that the system produces.
DAL Pilots are more productive than SWA Pilots when looking at revenue production.
Bottom line - DAL Pilots produce more revenue which directly affects profits. Why do you even break out operating revenue? The reason I ask is that if we look at block hours we are taking into account the DAL “system” which includes numerous fleets with all the inherent inefficiencies that they bring along.
If you think it is fair to compare straight block hours when the DAL “system”forces inefficiencies then let’s also look at all of the revenue that the system produces.
DAL Pilots are more productive than SWA Pilots when looking at revenue production.
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