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Vacation

Old 09-29-2018, 05:40 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by captkdobbs View Post
When a senior (19+ year) pilot retires, that removes 5 weeks of 'pilot productivity loss' at the top of whatever pay-scale said pilot resides.

When we hire a new pilot, we're adding 1-2 weeks of 'pilot productivity loss' at the lower end of the pay scales.

Does the massive number of retirements and the resulting shift (younger/newer) of the pilot group influence our leverage/negotiating capital in this area? I know that in terms of the whole, this may be a drop in the bucket.
But to me it seems like the retirements are reducing a cost of a 'senior' pilot group.

No offense intended to the senior pilots; I'm just jealous I won't ever hit the 19+ level on the vacation scale. (hired older)
It’s a great point.
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Old 09-29-2018, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
I'm adamantly against vacation sell back, and don't think we need additional weeks. We need to fix the weeks we have by way of daily hour credit increases. 3-something a day is asinine, and the last thing we need are more weeks at that anemic level.
100% agree. A week of vacation maybe gives you a couple extra days off a month, that's it! Needs to be worth 5:15. Nothing else makes sense.
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:01 PM
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Default Vacation and Reserves

Keep hearing folks say that bidding reserves in a month when you have vacation is better because it pays more. I tried deciphering the PWA to figure out why that’s true, but I can’t.

Could someone please explain / show their work?

Let’s assume 30 day bid period and 1 week of vacation. ALV is worst case 72 hours.

TIA!
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:30 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF View Post
Keep hearing folks say that bidding reserves in a month when you have vacation is better because it pays more. I tried deciphering the PWA to figure out why that’s true, but I can’t.

Could someone please explain / show their work?

Let’s assume 30 day bid period and 1 week of vacation. ALV is worst case 72 hours.

TIA!
Go to www.pbshelp.info. At the bottom there is an excel labeled PBS reserve pay excel calculator. Plug in your categorie/vacatin info and it will show you what you seek.
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by m3113n1a1 View Post
100% agree. A week of vacation maybe gives you a couple extra days off a month, that's it! Needs to be worth 5:15. Nothing else makes sense.
For 99% of the jobs in this world a week of vacation is 1/4 of a typical month. A week of vacation at Delta is 1/4 of our ALV. Does it make sense if we call it 1/4 ALV Paid Time Off? We work 4 days per week. Should we make a week of vacation 4 days worth 5:15 each? I'm not against 5:15 per day, it's just an effort to help you understand how a week of vacation in the pilot world compares to the other 99%
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Old 09-29-2018, 08:07 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
I'm adamantly against vacation sell back, and don't think we need additional weeks. We need to fix the weeks we have by way of daily hour credit increases. 3-something a day is asinine, and the last thing we need are more weeks at that anemic level.
An equal comparison would be:
Option 1: 5.25 per day at the current weeks(assuming maxed) =183.75hrs of vacation.
Option 2: 7 weeks at 3.75 per day=183.75
How would those two options differ? --> My opinion
5 weeks you could pick-up more time in vacation months(because less time is blocked off on your schedule). Which means, some folks would pick-up more to make more.

7 weeks means you can't pick up as much--> Less productivity increased staffing requirement(relative to option 1).

Bottom Line- Vacation needs to be increased some-how.
I think there are a lot of people that would like Option 1, but my argument is it is more productive. Additionally, I think it would give more flexibility to people that can't hold certain weeks of vacation, because you could work your schedule based on the higher value.
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Old 09-29-2018, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunfighter View Post
For 99% of the jobs in this world a week of vacation is 1/4 of a typical month. A week of vacation at Delta is 1/4 of our ALV. Does it make sense if we call it 1/4 ALV Paid Time Off? We work 4 days per week. Should we make a week of vacation 4 days worth 5:15 each? I'm not against 5:15 per day, it's just an effort to help you understand how a week of vacation in the pilot world compares to the other 99%
This makes sense. Good explanation, thanks!
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Old 09-30-2018, 04:55 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Gunfighter View Post
For 99% of the jobs in this world a week of vacation is 1/4 of a typical month. A week of vacation at Delta is 1/4 of our ALV. Does it make sense if we call it 1/4 ALV Paid Time Off? We work 4 days per week. Should we make a week of vacation 4 days worth 5:15 each? I'm not against 5:15 per day, it's just an effort to help you understand how a week of vacation in the pilot world compares to the other 99%
A pilot work week is tougher on the body. Sleep disruption, long duty hours, time zones, backside flying, air quality and density etc. take there toll. More time off to recover (vacation) used to be the norm. Not to mention time with family, being gone 14-16 days a month doesn’t leave much time for kids or spouses or your own down time relaxing with your choice of enjoyment. I think the 9-5 world wouldn’t be able to hack a career like we do. That’s why some instruct or take office jobs or bid reserve. We deserve more time off and better schedules and used to have them. QOL2019
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Old 09-30-2018, 06:56 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
2017 operating revenue per pilot.
DL-1357xxx
SWA-1337xxx

Total revenue however is more in our favor. Delta had 41B in total revenue with 14,600 pilots. SWA had 21B with 9600 pilots.
So when measuring operating revenue we are more productive than SWA Pilots. When measuring total revenue we are even more productive.

Bottom line - DAL Pilots produce more revenue which directly affects profits. Why do you even break out operating revenue? The reason I ask is that if we look at block hours we are taking into account the DAL “system” which includes numerous fleets with all the inherent inefficiencies that they bring along.

If you think it is fair to compare straight block hours when the DAL “system”forces inefficiencies then let’s also look at all of the revenue that the system produces.

DAL Pilots are more productive than SWA Pilots when looking at revenue production.
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Old 09-30-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
So when measuring operating revenue we are more productive than SWA Pilots. When measuring total revenue we are even more productive.

Bottom line - DAL Pilots produce more revenue which directly affects profits. Why do you even break out operating revenue? The reason I ask is that if we look at block hours we are taking into account the DAL “system” which includes numerous fleets with all the inherent inefficiencies that they bring along.

If you think it is fair to compare straight block hours when the DAL “system”forces inefficiencies then let’s also look at all of the revenue that the system produces.

DAL Pilots are more productive than SWA Pilots when looking at revenue production.
Absolutely, widebodies will do that for you. We probably don’t want the 737 verses 737 numbers posted.
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